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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.horror.cthulhu,alt.necronomicon,alt.satanism,alt.mythology,alt.psychology.jung,alt.magick.order
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (ny'rl'thot'p)
Subject: Ncon, HPL, Archetypes and Initiation (was Objectification)
Date: 12 Jan 1998 22:51:44 -0800

49971011 aa2 Hail Satan!

re the usage of the term 'necronomicon':
it is not surprising that the complexity in usage of the term has 
grown from that of a book encountered in a dream, thereafter employed
as a plot device in horror fiction, to usage as a generic implying 
'plot device' itself, given the natural tendencies of language 
growth, especially among writers of diverse temperament and opinion.


re '*the* Necronomicon':
I AM genuinely suprised to see the Necronomicon being discussed 
in any sort of dismissive fashion given the persuasive defense 
made for skepticism and open-mindedness on the issue within 
'Liber Grimoiris': 

     http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/Avidyana/Gnostik/grimoiris.fn

while it may be true to say that there is no _Necronomicon_ which
H.P. Lovecraft physically observed, it is unreasonable to expect 
us to believe categorical denials of the work's existence in any
form whatever without some testimony to your authority in the matter.


re Middle-Eastern magic and mythology in relation to Lovecraft's text:
there is some text from Parker Ryan which suggests this origin,
though I have little understanding of his background or slant (he
may be putting forward a religious perspective which is not based
on any kind of historical data), found at:

      http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/Usenet/Necronomicon/9406.nconhpl.pr

here's a sample of the first document of his which I archived:

$ To: alt.necromicon
$ From: parker@moorhead.msus.edu (PARKER RYAN)
$ Subject: Mythic Archetypes and Lovecraft (9406.nconhpl.pr)
$ Date: 49940614
$
$ As I've discussed in earlier posts many elements of Lovecraft's fiction
$ were directly inspired by Near Eastern myth and magick. For instance
$ Cthulhu is an expansion on the Dragon of the Abyss in Near Eastern myth.
$ This dragon called leviathan or Tiamat lies in the Abyss or primordial
$ Ocean. Cthulhu is described as dragon-like and is said to lie in the
$ ocean. Both Cthulhu and the Dragon are said to predate mankind by aeons.
$ The Dragon is sometimes said to be dead. However, since the Dragon can be
$ roused from this state sleeping might be a more accurate description.
$ Cthulhu is "dead but dreaming" waiting to be roused. Some ancient texts
$ say that the Dragon will rises at the end of a great cosmic cycle. The end
$ of this cycle will come at a time when man is wild and beyond morals. The
$ exact same is claimed of Cthulhu. There are many more parallels, but this
$ should suffice. Obviously Cthulhu is an expansion on ancient myth familiar
$ to HPL. This in no way detracts from Lovecraft's creativity. All writing
$ of merit contains archetypical myth-forms. ...


re various versions of the Necronomicon:
this has been adequately covered by the Necronomicon FAQ, which may be
found at:

	http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/Web/Amgkfaq/nconref

	Version: 9511
	From: kchua@unf6.cis.unf.edu (Kendrick Kerwin Chua)

it may need some updating, but I think the bulk of the history of the
main publications of versions of the Necronomicon, both farcical and
serious, are contained there.  it is possible that no serious version
has yet been created, especially along the lines described by Lovecraft
(bound in human skin, etc.), though there have been prototypes developed
for films ('Army of Darkness', etc.) that may yet have to be fleshed out,
so to speak.


re 'initiate status' and the quality of text:
it is true indeed that just because a writer may make use of mythos 
or occult sciences and arts this doesn't necessarily demonstrate hir
status as an initiate to the Inner Mysteries.  however, it is important
also to point out that 'initiate status' is not defined by social
membership and ritual imprinting alone.  

how do you think that these cults got their start?  the most 
authoritative had a DIRECT initiation by the gods/archetypes/whatever 
you want to call them.  the style and content of a writer's work may tell 
us something of hir level of initiation, especially when conceived as
more than just a club, and dreams are one of the most potent sources 
within which to encounter mystical truths (whether horrific or benign).
  

re 'just' tapping into archetypes and 'summoning emotion':
perspective is everything.  to you it might look like 'just' such a
tapping, while to the person who experiences it the walls are leaking
blood and the stuff of countless horror media plays out before hir
very senses.   to suggest that this is somehow 'less' because it doesn't
include you within it by virtue of manifesting in your physical world
is outrageous and disrespectful of those who undergo these tremendous
experiences and/or reflect them through their art.

the kind of intellectual surface-trolling which considers the material
world the standard of 'reality' and physics the stuff of Truth derives
from the very misguided and diseased victims which Lovecraft's dark
texts take their time to dismember.  they are intimately entwined, the
first a squelching of the lower realms in favor of dry and ignorant
hubris, the latter a deserved comeuppance from the Elder Gods.

tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (ny'rl'thot'p)
-- 
(emailed replies may be posted); http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi; 408/2-666-SLUG
  join the esoteric syncretism in alt.magick.tyagi; http://www.abyss.com/tokus