THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.mythology,alt.necronomicon,alt.horror.cthulhu,sci.skeptic,alt.paranet.skeptic
From: MERKVRIVS 
Subject: Re: The Book of Power: Evaluating the Necronomicon (was ...)
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:30:12 -0600

ny'rl'thot'p wrote:
> 
> MERKVRIVS :
> >Some observations I've had concerning the Necronomicon:
> >(Sorry if it seems a bit long.)
> 
> this is unclear. your observations appear to be about *Simon's*
> Necronomicon. I'm going to archive your text with this in mind
> unless you state otherwise. thanks.

For the most part the references are to Simon's _Necronomicon_.

> 
> >1.  The mythos of the work is based in Sumerian Mythology (simple
> >enough) - however, it is a bastardization thereof (read the Enuma Elish
> >sometime and compare).
> 
> and what SHOULD the Necronomicon contain, according to Lovecraft?
> should it be in Arabic? or some magical language known to the Mad
> Arab? if so, which?
> 

This is a good question.  IMO both.  If it were the original work by the
Mad Arab himself (c. 730 AD) I would expect the spells and such to be in
some arcane language and the comments, etc. in the language of the
author's day as purport by HPL.  This work was alledly translated into
Greek in 950 AD by Theodorus Philetas which was burnt in 1050 AD by
Patrriarch Michael (the Arabic now lost).  The greek versioin was then
translated into Latin in 1228 AD.  Both Greek and Latin editions were
suppressed by Pope gregory IX in 1232 AD.  Afterwards a black letter
edition reportedly appeared in Germany c. 1440 AD, a Greek text edition
was printed in Italy c. 1500-1550 AD and Spanish translation of the
Latin text c. 1600? (History as found listed in _Tales of the Cthulhu
Mythos Vol I_ p.ix-x by HPL and others, edited by August Derleth).

> >3.  Lovecraft admitted (in his letters that he was so fond of writting )
> >that the creatures were from his imagination - more significantly to me
> >at least - his dreams and nightmares.  This has always given rise to the
> >question (for me at least) whether there was some validity in
> >Lovecraft's mythos as _a_ (i.e. his) perception of the Qlippoth which
> >does not necessarily validate the book The Necronomicon.
> 
> this is EXACTLY the kind of speculation (regarding to what nonphysical
> objects, structures, or entities Lovecraft's works may relate) that I
> find valuable to consider in evaluating the Necronomicon.
> 

It is where I personally find the most value in the _Necronomicon_.  My
favorite perspective is that of a somewhat Jungian/Magickal view (as I
with most things) of its description interpreted as a psychotic,
nightmarish or otherwise Qlippothic perception of the Macrocosm
(inverted of course).

> >4.  IMHO the spells appear relatively modern.  They bare more semblance
> >to 19th/20th century Magick (esp. Crowleyan) than they do 12-17th
> >century works (except perhaps for the version attributed to Dee which I
> >found interesting in that there is little mention of such a work until
> >recent times - always seemed suspect given the attention acquired by his
> >other works) and bare no resemblance (beyond the names apparently
> >derived from the Enuma Elish) to ancient Sumerian rituals.
> 
> so in a Necronomicon that Lovecraft described it would be at least
> 900 pages long or something that sort (Lovecraft gives page numbers
> in his citations, along with quotes, which would have to APPEAR on
> those pages), and what kind of religio-magical contents would you
> EXPECT otherwise? based on HPL's description, what resemblances to
> archaeological or anthropological data should there be? would we
> expect it to be related to R'lyehaen archaeogeometrics and/or
> pentacular shapes twisted into a style disturbing to the human mind?
> 

Another good question.  According HPL the work that inspired the Mad
Arab should either predate known or historical Sumeria and/or be part of
a Sumerian tradition of black arts (probably secretive given the
Sumerian culture was no more diabolical than any other).  What semblance
it might bare to known Sumerian tradition could vary thereby.  In either
case I would expect it to bare some resemblance but not necessarily
exact (compare, for example, Sumerian, Babylonian, Greek and Judaic
myths as legacy myths past from one culture to the next or Sumerian vs.
Babylonian, Babylonian vs Judaic and/or Judaic vs. Gnostic myths as
concurrent examples in their development).  However, given the
orientation of the work I would expect the contents to be distorted
whether as a reflection of that which is described and/or the state of
mind and perceptions of the author.

> >6.  I would like to see one valid reference (preferably not modern) to a
> >work outside the Necronomicon itself stating that it had been rumored
> >that so-and-so had such owned a work way back when.
> 
> it is NOT historical, it derives from the dreams of a fiction writer,
> who, in particular, describes the magical potency of dreamworlds and
> dream data.
> 

As I have already stated this is where I find value in the work.  I do
not actually expect anyone to turn up with *the* _Necronomicon_ or
references thereto.

> >7.  The Mad Arab story is fairly lame given that he all but writes his
> >own death scene.
> 
> >&    The stars grow dim in their places, and the Moon pales before me,
> >&    as though a Veil were blown across its flame.  Dog-faced demons
> >&    approach the circumfrance of my sanctuary.  Strange lines appear
> >&    carved on my door and walls, and the light from the Window grows
> >&    increasingly dim.
> >&    A wind has risen.
> >&    The Dark Waters stir.
> >&    This is the Book of the Servant of the Gods....
> >     -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >      _Necronomicon_ (Avon Books), the Testimony of the Mad Arab,
> >       the second part p. 218
> >     ____________________________________________________________
> 
> does this have ANY correlate to quotation from Lovecraft's work?
> 

None that I'm aware of.

> the smallest possible construction of a Necronomicon would contain
> the quotes from Lovecraft's works on pages numbered appropriately,
> whether or not they pertained to a numerological sequence. the book
> would also conform to Lovecraft's general description also, and its
> content would resemble in character the historical influences that
> Lovecraft described in certainty. any ambiguity in HPL's data would
> allow some variation, and the rest would have to conform to the
> minimal standards constructed.
> 
> at some point I'll begin a compilation of exactly what HPL DID say
> about the book, and possibly proceed to other "Cthulhu Mythos"
> authors who added to the corpus, unless someone else would like to
> do this work or knows where it is already accomplished and would
> like to refer me. thanks.
> 
 
I'm certain I have seen such compilations that even included references
to other Cthulhu mythos authors and their cited contribution(s) to the
lore but I am at loss to place such a work now.  I believe some such
compilations may be available online (see below).

Merk

======

Here's a few links that I pulled up during lucnh that may or may not be
helpful:

-This one looks promising:
_History of the Necronomicon_
by H.P. Lovecraft 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0318047152/ugeniepcs/102-3675731-0456010

_The Necronomicon : Selected Stories & Essays Concerning the Blasphemous
Tome of the Mad Arab_ (Cthulhu Mythos Fiction Series) 
by Robert M. Price (Editor), Robert Silverberg, John Brunner, Lovecraft,
H. P. Lovecraft 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568820704/bookmag/102-3675731-0456010


Glossary of Cthulhu Mythos Terms
http://www.necropress.com/wfrl/mythosdb/mythos.cgi
-Returned interesting results on with a search for the term
'Necronomicon'

The Cthulhu Mythos: A Guide
http://members.home.com/cmythos/mythos.htm

Cthulhu WebRing
http://www.toddalan.com/~berglund/webrings.htm

The Official Cthulhu Mythos FAQ
http://members.tripod.com/~danharms/mythos.htm

The Necronomicon Files 
http://members.tripod.com/~danharms/necfile.htm

De Web Mysteriis 
Cthulhu Mythos on the Web
http://146.19.2.3/~alquier/cthulhu.html

Lovecraft's Necronomicon
http://www.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/scripts/necronomicon.html

The Necronomicon Anti-FAQ (edited by Colin Low)
http://www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/necron.htm

H. P. Lovecraft and Necronomicon links
http://www.jyu.fi/~anoljo/lovecraft.html

Mini-FAQ
http://www.hplovecraft.com/internet/ahcfaq/mini-faq.htm

-Most of these were obtain through the first couple of pages at:
http://hotbot.lycos.com/?MT=cthulhu+mythos+necronomicon&SQ=1&TR=566&BT=H

-Just for kicks:
2486 SURF links
book magick books ancient magic pagan crowley great information
http://www.hughes.net/~scheper/magi.htm