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To: alt.lucky.w,alt.magick.alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.orisha From: catherine yronwodeSubject: The 6th and 7th Books of Moses Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:54:32 -0800 From email: > > The magickal text known as the "6th and 7th Books of Moses", > as you know, seems highly thought of in hoodoo and pow wow > circles. Am I missing something? I have, and have perused, both the > red-bound pamphlet style version and Migene Gonzalez-Wippler's moden > re-working...and the book STILL makes no sense to me in terms of > practical usage of the Seals and verbal incantations within. "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses" dates back several hundred years; The material first appeared in widespread print in Germany, as far as i know; it is said to be of Jewish origin, but only spuriously attributed to the Moses of Bible fame. The "pamphlet" version you refer to is a late 19th or early 20th century English-language translation of the most commonly-encountered German pamphlet edition. The Gonzalez-Whippler "re-working" is, in my opinion, of the same quality as her Santeria books; that is, it is not worth the paper it is printed on. > Am I supposed to believe that working-class, often sparsely educated > Hoodoo Workers did all the elaborate preparations and rituals therein > -- if, indeed, they could make head or tail of the text? Well, you are not "supposed" to believe that, but it happens to be true. "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses" is one of many Jewish Kabbalistic texts that long ago found favour with African-American root workers and Pennsylvania Dutch hexmeisters. For more details on the subject of cultural cross-over between German, Jewish, and African sources in the realm of American folk-magic, please read the following two web pages: History of Hoodoo in America: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html Pow Wows or Long Lost Friend: http://www.luckymojo.com/powwows.html In particular, the former web page addresses the subject of how the people you refer to as " working-class, often sparsely educated Hoodoo Workers" came to appreciate and make use of Medieval European magcal texts. Documentation of this assertion is provided on this we page from transcribed interviews with hoodoo practitioners conducted by Harry M. Hyatt in the 1930s. > The occult store I go to sells the Seals on parchment paper, in red > ink, but the clerk I asked about it got cagey in a way which suggested > evasion and ignorance about equally. So, is there some "initiatory > mystery" around the information in the 67BM, or is it an exercise in > occultist bafflegab like I suspect the Voudun Gnostic Workbook > to be, or am I just dense? I cannot speak for the knowledge-level of the store clerk whom you encountered, but i can assure you that, in my opinion, and to the best of my knowledge: 1) There is no "initiatory mystery" connected to "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses." 2) "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses" is NOT "an exercise in occultist bafflegab" -- it is a genuine European grimoire. 3) "The Voudun Gnostic Workbook" does not educate the reader about Vodoun (an African-derived religion of Haiti) or Gnosticism (a suppressed religious sect that for a while overlapped with and competed with early mainstream Christianity); it is not worth the cost of the ink that marred the formerly clean paper upon which it was printed. > After all, the book's name _does_ carry a famous aura in the realm of > practical magick, and if it's as powerful as the lore suggests, I'd > like to access it. Any leads in this direction, or personal insights, > would be appreciated. I suggest that in order to understand "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses," you familiarize yourself with how it fits into the context of other Jewish and Christian grimoires of the same era -- for instance, the material reprinted at the end of Henri Gamache's collection called "The 8th, 9th, and 10th Books of Moses" (the part originally published as "The Sword of Moses"), "The Black Pullet," and other texts that can be found in good English translations in the scholarly collections assembled by Arthur Edward Waite. A cheap reprint pamphlet that contains some of Waite's material is "The Book of Talismans," which is handled by many occult suppliers who cater to people on limited budgets who cannot afford the more costly Waite books. Speaking of Gamache's "8th, 9th, and 10th Books of Moses" -- i find it to be a lot more inexplicable and item than the better-known "6th and 7th Books of Moses" because almost 2/3 of it consists of Gamache's personal Afro-centric musings about spiritual and cultural connections between Biblical Jews and black Africans and African=-Americans. This material -- in particular the claim that Moses was "the Great Voodoo Man of the Bible" -- is not about magic per se, but it reveals a lot about both Gamache and about the time in which it was written (the 1940s, just as the Civil Rights movement was getting underway) -- in particular, it is enlightening to compare Gamache's Semito-phillic theories with those of the *anti*-Semitic Afro-centrist Elijah Muhammed. All that aside, the last part of the book is the only cheap source for the "Sword of Moses" grimoire material in English, and so i receommend it fairly highly to students of such lore In the hope that others will have further comments to add, i have crossposted your query and my response to usenet. Cordially, catherine yronwode ------------------------ mailto:cat@luckymojo.com Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html Lucky W Amulet Archive --------- http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html The Sacred Landscape ------- http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html Karezza and Sacred Sex ------ http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html news:alt.lucky.w --- discussions on folk magic, luck, amulets, charms Path: ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!uunet!pao.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!in5.uu.net!nntp.abs.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!uio.no!romeo.dax.net!not-for-mail From: ccc33@psicorps.com (Peer Vasne Fandum) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: The 6th and 7th Books of Moses Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:31:25 GMT Organization: CCC333 Lines: 71 Message-ID: <3728e6d0.33610928@news.c2i.net> References: <199810180304.UAA28875@mail2.sirius.com> <3728D4DF.457A@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mp-217-239-203.daxnet.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:16917 >"The 6th and 7th Books of Moses" is one of many Jewish Kabbalistic texts >that long ago found favour with African-American root workers and >Pennsylvania Dutch hexmeisters. For more details on the subject of >cultural cross-over between German, Jewish, and African sources in the >realm of American folk-magic, please read the following two web pages: > History of Hoodoo in America: > http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html > Pow Wows or Long Lost Friend: > http://www.luckymojo.com/powwows.html > There are other books of Moses of gnostic origin. Quote: "called 'eighth' or 'holy'", labelled PGM XIII.1-343 and PGM XIII. 343-646 of the Leiden Papyri. Reference: Papyri Graecae Magicae. Die Griechischen Zauberpapyri, 2 vols. ed. K. Preisendanz, et al. (Stuttgart: Teubner, 1973-74). >I cannot speak for the knowledge-level of the store clerk whom you >encountered, but i can assure you that, in my opinion, and to the best >of my knowledge: > 1) There is no "initiatory mystery" connected to "The 6th and 7th >Books of Moses." In the PGM, the rites are definitely initiatory, and not very sorcery/talismanic oriented. > 2) "The 6th and 7th Books of Moses" is NOT "an exercise in occultist >bafflegab" -- it is a genuine European grimoire. The PGM is hardcore gnosticism. Pretty anti-jewish and at most pseudo-kabalistic. > 3) "The Voudun Gnostic Workbook" does not educate the reader about >Vodoun (an African-derived religion of Haiti) or Gnosticism (a >suppressed religious sect that for a while overlapped with and competed >with early mainstream Christianity); it is not worth the cost of the ink >that marred the formerly clean paper upon which it was printed. The VGW does tap into the gnostic current, according to my views obtained through reading and discussion with members of Couleuvre Noire. It should be noted that Bertiaux calls his path of Voudon specifically _esoteric_. VGW is as a good a grimoire as Goetia, and probably teaches the student more about magiq. > >Speaking of Gamache's "8th, 9th, and 10th Books of Moses" -- i find it >to be a lot more inexplicable and item than the better-known "6th and >7th Books of Moses" because almost 2/3 of it consists of Gamache's >personal Afro-centric musings about spiritual and cultural connections >between Biblical Jews and black Africans and African=-Americans. This >material -- in particular the claim that Moses was "the Great Voodoo Man >of the Bible" -- is not about magic per se, but it reveals a lot about >both Gamache and about the time in which it was written (the 1940s, just >as the Civil Rights movement was getting underway) -- in particular, it >is enlightening to compare Gamache's Semito-phillic theories with those >of the *anti*-Semitic Afro-centrist Elijah Muhammed. All that aside, the >last part of the book is the only cheap source for the "Sword of Moses" >grimoire material in English, and so i receommend it fairly highly to >students of such lore Sounds interesting. Is there a version online? Enigmatically yours, M.Y. Shri Peer Vasne Fandum Twin of Today & Tomorrow __ Enjoy the core of kaliyuga at http://home.c2i.net/blinge Path: ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!uunet!pao.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!cyclone.i1.net!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ60!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news1.ottawa.cyberus.ca!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!usenet From: eh671@freenet.carleton.ca (Michael McCord) Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic Subject: Re: 6th & 7th Books of Moses Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:55:09 -0400 Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 46 Sender: eh671@freenet.carleton.ca (Michael McCord) Message-ID: <37288EED.A419DFE6@freenet.carleton.ca> References: <6i3W2.168$yg4.16314@eagle.america.net> Reply-To: mmccord@hotmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p47t1.std.dialup.ncf.carleton.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en X-Given-From: m Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:9306 It's been around for a while....seems to be a favorite of the Santarians. We have many requests for it from people from the Caribbean islands. (WE= the Hungry Eye in Ottawa) I've seen it in 2 incarnations, the most recent is still printed on old style printing presses...it's a small printing company. "The trade" usually means booksellers, though in this case it may mean the "occult" trade...the company prints only occult titles AFAIK. There is also the 8th, 9th and 10th Books of Moses, but the one you have is the best to use. It's used much the same way as "The Greater Key of Solomon the King" (or the lesser key book, for that matter). Kathryn Rogers wrote: > > I have a very curious book which has been in my possession since the 70's. > It's called: > > The Sixth and Seventh BOOKS OF MOSES; or MOSES' MAGICAL SPIRIT-ART, > KNOWN AS THE WONDERFUL ARTS > of the old wise Hebrews, Taken from the Mosaic Books of the Cabala and the > Talmud, For the good of mankind. > > Translated from The German, Word for Word, according to Old Writings. > with numerous engravings, > > PUBLISHED FOR THE TRADE > printed in U.S.A. > > Translated from the Ancient Hebrew > > There is no date, no author, no publisher. > > What "trade" would this be for? > > It is filled with seals and invocations. It starts: > > MAGIA ALBA ET NIGRA UNIVERSALIS SEU NECROMANTIA > > also: > > BIBLIA, ARCANA MAGICA ALEXANDER, > > It also lists The Psalms and the many purposes to which they may be applied. > Such as spells. > Path: ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!uunet!pao.uu.net!lax.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!in5.uu.net!nntp.abs.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: "John M Hansen" Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic Subject: Re: 6th & 7th Books of Moses Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:27:20 -0400 Lines: 11 Message-ID: <7gb492$t74$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <6i3W2.168$yg4.16314@eagle.america.net> X-Trace: AJ7XwQImXye9H/4pfuTBWwO+l+jQEm/NMsiXtZmab+o= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Apr 1999 02:24:34 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:9296 This book is still in print. The Latin reads: Magia = 'Magic white and black also necromancy' Biblia etc. = (Book of the Hidden Magic of Alexander (the Great)) The book is a poor English translation of a book first published in German in the 1700's Regards, John M Hansen
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