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Marseille Tarot Age, Key 11, Return

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.tarot,alt.divination,alt.religion.wicca
From: nagasiva 
Subject: Marseille Tarot Age, Key 11, Return 
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:27:37 GMT

50031016 viii om

Sir Brax:
#> I stand on the "Traditional" side. When I Took the "Marseille Tarot" as
#> First, and only valuable references to talk about the "Book" who is 
#> behind the card, it is because our most Known and Old version of the 
#> Tarot IS the Marseille deck. It could be that the Marseille is The 
#> first "materialization" of the Tarot itself, since no one had ever 
#> found a more ancien Tarot that these one. But that is another story 
#> to be told, and to be found... In this deck, justice is the 8th 
#> Arcana, Strenght is the 11th...

Caliban :
# While neither I, nor anyone else, can produce an earlier Tarot, 

Visconti and Visconti-Sforza, Tarocchi of Mantegna, etc. 
precede Marseille I think (Kaplan calling the last an 18th
century Tarot deck). if you're just talking about (occult)
Tarot, then that's a topic I find immensely interesting
(because art historians I've talked with said that this
deck was fabricated for the purpose of playing games, 
so the issue immediately becomes when and how it 
should be included in (occult) Tarot tradition).

has it been integrated to described occult practices,
mapped to sefirotic trees or engaged in visualizations
or something, within ritual contexts? I wouldn't be very
surprised if so, but I've not heard of the orders doing 
this (French I'd guess, maybe Martinists).

# I believe there certainly was one, dating as far back 
# as Ancient Egypt.

LOL! Mamluk?

# It's only a theory, of course, but it feels right 
# to me. 

when I project backward I prefer to make it upon some
fantastic past, like the time of some Taoist magician:
Three Lost Keys of Fu Hsi (originally a 9 x 9 square). ;>
Fu was a naga (draconic entity) instructor of the Chinese,
and creator also of the Yijing, mapped to a 8 x 8 square.

my vision is that he has some cosmic device mapped to
magic squares of every planet with a divination game:

N    2       Mercury: YICHESS      (8x8 64 hexagrams)
I    1       Sun    : SHIVA        (6x6 36 dicethrows)
G    6       Jupiter: GEOMANTICA   (4x4 16 geomantic figures)
     M       Moon   : TAROT        (9x9 81 cards (78 + 3 Fu Xi Keys))
R    3       Venus  : ASHTA-KASHTE (7x7 49 sigils (Babalonian dowsing?))
I    5       Mars   : ALBEQUERQUE  (5x5 25 runes (Blumian Futhark))
S    7       Saturn : MERELS       (3x3  9 Lo Shu Tic Tac Toe squares)

# ...the turning of the Wheel, numbered 10, would 
# require a re-balancing which occurs with Justice 
# at 11. 

that depends on when the cycle terminates and starts.
granted a zodiacal and Babylonian slant, you'd have
11 as not-quite-completion to 12 and return to 1,
for example.

# This, to me, is a more natural order. 

11 as the beginning of another sequence as compared
with 8? that's quite convincing, yes. 9-terminus and
10 the new cycle is a competitor for 11, however.

# Additionally, Justice is frequently associated with
# Balance, particularly in Ancient Egypt where the 
# Lord of the Dead, Osiris, is nothing if not a 
# master of balance.

I favour L BALANCE LIBRA XI 22 as its composure for
similar reasons. the scales are a feature of Libran 
symbolism way back. I tend to think that anarchism 
is contrary to Justice, so I renamed the card. XI's 
relation to 22 Trumps generally is relevant here
(being the Balance of the Large). Plebeian Tarot 
features M PASSION LUNA 23 as said Trump of Return. 

     =====  (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) =====
      ANCIENTS : M-2-3-1-5-6-7 (mean terracentric motion order)
       NIGRIS  : 2-1-6-M-3-5-7 (a mysterious, hidden sequence!)
      WEEKDAYS : 1-M-5-2-6-3-7 (weekdays in the solar calendar)
      PLAN-KEY : 1-2-3-M-5-6-7 (Sun-Merc-Ven-Moon-Mars-Jup-Sat)
     ========== (Rotating Wisdom From The Ancients!) ===========
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