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To: alt.magick.tyagi
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (xiwangmu)
Subject: OTO Supreme Secret (IX') (LONG)
Date: 28 Dec 1996 10:25:06 -0800

[Orig-To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org (Thelema93-Listserv); followups targetted]

49961227 AA1  The Revolution Continues!!

E6


xiwangmu:
#>apparently the 'Supreme Secret 
#>of the OTO' is 'sacred sex within ritual circumstances' and, likely, 
#>possibly coincident with bodily energetic disciplines along the lines of 
#>kundalini yoga.
#>
#>this rite is supposed to fabricate the Elixir of Life, contained within 
#>the comingled sexual effluvia of the participant male and female, then 
#>to be sucked and absorbed through a bodily membrane (some say the roof 
#>of the mouth, others say the genitals themselves [do] an adequate job, 
#>still others apparently think that the tongue is sufficient) as a kind
#>of tantric eucharist ("IX'").

#>whether any of the 'energy' actually transfers or such an 'elixir' is
#>created I leave for the experimentation of the reader.

Leroy Lauer :
#...Where does the Belief that there is anything such as an "Elixir of 
#Life" come from?  

I presume that this is the alchemic 'Elixir of Eternal Life/Immortality' 
and has been promoted by Rosicrucians and various other Western 
esotericists for centuries, by taoists for centuries before them (cf
Chang Tao Ling or my namesake Xiwangmu and the religion of taoism;
Michel Strickmann is a good source, as in some measure is Blofeld).  

it is also called the 'Universal Medicine' and is apparently derived of 
and at times equivalent to the 'Philosopher's Stone'.  the idea is very 
old and, like most things ancient which have acquired a reputation for 
being possessions of the powerful (e.g. 'the Spear of Destiny', 'Holy
Graal', etc.), they are claimed by numerous organizations in a variety 
of ways (metaphorical, having obtained their 'formula'; literal, having 
obtained the cache; spiritual, having obtained the structure or 
disciplines whereby its essence manifests naturally, etc.).

with most organizations and power-sources these are entirely purposed to
derive and maintain membership and function as a carrot for slaves.  in 
some cases the 'secret' may actually refer to something of physical and/or
mystical value coincident to or paralleling similar effects to those claimed.  

in the case of this elixir, we may presume that an association of it with
sexuality may in some measure inspire juvenal effects (as the telos or
sex-enthusiasm may, being on the order of the fervency of life, also in
some way resist the entropism of age (possibly see Reichian 'Orgonics' for 
more here as well).  I have no evidence that this leads to any kind of 
physical 'immortality', though with a bit of exaggeration and concealed 
metaphor I can easily see how 'immortality' can be turned to a shorter-term 
and mystical significance.


#So far, the discussion seems to assume its actuality.

this is consistent within alchemical and Rosicrucian/Hermetic cultures,
and as you have inspired me I provide selections on this elixir/stone
for further reference (welcoming others who may wish to make comment/quote).

the paradigm from which this proceeds often includes a categorization of 
the material and bodily as 'inferior' and 'mortal', including dualistic or
emanationalist metaphysics as a polar opposite to that of materialism
(in that the material *originates in the nonmaterial*).  this leads us to
concepts such as the 'Body of Light', the 'soul', and various other quasi-
or non-material substances/entities, usually either presumed of different
natures entirely or arranged in some sort of concentric and/or hierarchic
relationship (that of the 'more subtle' and less substantive being 
presumed more central and/or essential).

this paradigm appears to take at least some of its elements from Plato,
with his Ideas or Forms (the originals after which all physical 
manifestions are merely shadows -- see the Cave Analogy).  it may also
involve Plotinic concepts of emanation, arriving at more and more gross
substrates until the physical, death-imbued realm, is manifested.  almost
all of this may also be taken as mystical metaphor, which confuses matters
in wonderful ways (:>).

the concept of 'immortality' is valuably investigated.  it can imply the
usual mythological perpetuation of bodily living processes that are described 
of such beings like angels, elves, dragons and some vampires.  it can also 
imply some sort of 'spiritual perpetuity', inclusive of survival of the 
personal consciousness beyond what we know to be the death experience.

likewise, it can imply a condition *during life* wherein our consciousness
is rarefied or concentrated (often described as one's spirit or essence
becoming comprised of or imbued by some fabulous substance, such as made 
of crystals, diamonds, or adamantine).

all of these ideas ride along intersections of mystical and religious
paradigms (Spiritualist, Materialist, etc.) which have been adopted within
and adapted by Hermetics for centuries, though with few real variations
as to their core essentials beyond syncretic adjustment.  part of the 
'sell' does after all involve the recognition of the product, to which 
I now turn attention....

quoting Cavendish:

	3 The Elixir of Life
	
	MAMMON  But when you see th' effects of the Great Medicine,
		Of which one part projected on a hundred
		Of Mercury, or Venus, or the moon,
		Shall turn it to as many of the sun;
		Nay, to a thousand, so ad infinitum:
		You will belive me.

	SURLY	Yes, when I see't, I will.

	MAMMON	Do you think I fable with you?  I assure you,
		He that has once the flower of the sun,
		The perfect ruby, which we call the elixir, ['Star Ruby' mu]
		Not only can do that, but, by its virtue,
		Can confer honour, love, respect, long life,
		Give safety, valour, yea and victory,
		To whom he will.  In eight and twenty days
		I'll make an old man of fourscore, a child.

	SURLY	No doubt; he's that already.

				BEN JONSON, _The Alchemist_

	The adept who made the Philosopher's Stone had also made the
	Elixir of Life.  Since it was divine and the perfect substance,
	the Stone was eternal and immortal.  Its possession restored
	youth to the elderly, virility to the impotent, innocence and
	happiness to the world-weary.  It healed the crippled, cured
	all diseases and resurrected the dead.

	...The man who becomes the Stone has achieved true immortality.
	He has escaped the burden of successive mortal incarnations by
	becoming one with the eternal matrix, the One Life of the universe.

	[the Count of] St.-Germain ... had found the Philosopher's Stone
	and used it to make gold and the magnificent jewels with which
	his person was literally besprinkled.  He was believed to be over
	2,000 years old and to be either the Wandering Jew or the offspring
	of an Arabian princess and a salamander....

	St.-Germain attributed his astonishing longevity to his diet and
	his elixir ["water of rejuvenation"].  The elixir survives today
	as Saint-Germain Tea, a laxative made from senna.  The diet
	consisted chiefly of oatmeal, groats and white meat of chicken,
	with a little wine occasionally.  He also took elaborate precautions
	against catching cold.  He is presumed to have died in Germany in

	1784, but occultists believe that he was probably given a mock
	burial as, they say, Bacon was.  It is said that he was frequently
	seen alive in the next century and wa known to Bulwer Lytton.

	Although to possess the Stone was also to possess the Elixir,
	there have always been plenty of rival elixirs and rejuvenators
	on the market, involving methods ranging from drinking human
	blood or eating vipers, strongly recommended by Madame de Sevigne
	in the seventeenth century, to inhaling the breath of young girls
	or sleeping with them, called 'sunamitism' from the story of
	David and the Shunamite damsel of 1 Kings 1.  The search for
	magical renewal of youth and vigour still continues....

	Alcohol has long been a popular elixir.  Until recent times, in
	fact, alcohol was another term for the Elixir, or 'water of life',
	as it is called in various languages -- *aqua vitae, eau-de-vie,
	lebens-wasser*, and the Irish *uisgebeatha*, how shortened to
	'whiskey'.  In the early fourteenth century Arnald of Villanova
	identified it with alcohol in the modern sense, equating *aqui
	vini*, 'water of wine' with *aqua vitae*, but the word was not
	widely used in its modern meaning until the nineteenth centurty.
	Another name for alcohol was *aqua ardens*, because it is liquid
	and also burns; it was thought to be a combination of fire and
	water [cf native American 'firewater' mu] and so a form of the
	Stone.  Some medieval alchemists thought that alcohol was a form
	of the quintessence, the pure fifth elements of which the heavens
	are made....

	Gold was an obvious candidate for the Elixir, because the Stone
	was gold.  The *Archidoxa Medicinae* or Elixir of Life of
	Paracelsus is believed to have been made from gold and he
	valued 'potable gold' as a medicine for purifying the blood
	preventing miscarriages, as an antidote for poison, for keeping
	the Devil away if placed in a new-born baby's mouth, and especially
	for heart diseases, because gold and the heart are ruled by the sun.
	A sixteenth or seventeenth-century recipe says that to make potable
	gold you begin with three pints of red wine vinegar and the ashes
	of a block of tin, burnt in an iron pan.  Mix these together and
	distil them repeatedly.  Then heat one ounce of gold in a crucible
	with white salt.  Grind the mixture of gold and salt, heat it
	again, wash it with water until there is no taste of salt left.
	Add it to the vinegar-tin mixture, once ounce to the pint, and
	evaporate it to the consistency of honey.  Dissolve it in spirits
	of wine and you have potable gold.  It is significant that the
	recipe mentions alcohol and also honey and salt, both of which
	prevent decay....

	[Besides Bacon,] Another eminent English philosophy, Berkeley,
	hoped that he had found what might prove to be a 'universal
	medicine', a substance which carried the essence of life and cured
	all diseases, in 'tar-water', the dark resin exuded from pine-
	trees and firs mixed with cold water in the proportion of 1:4.
	He learned its uses on a mission to the American Indians....
	[during the mid-1700s; mu]

	Many occultists have speculated on the nature of life, what it
	consists of or in what substance it is contained, in the hope
	of using an 'essence of life' to stave off old age and cure
	disease.  According to Paracelsus, the essence of life is
	contained in an invisible substance called 'mumia'.  Blood,
	hair, sweat, urine and excrement [likely sexual efflucia also; 
	mu] all retain, for a time, the vital power of the body from
	which they come, and it is possible to make from them a micro-
	cosmic magnet' which contains mumia and attracts it, in the
	same way that magnetised iron attracts iron.  If this is
	applied to the afflicted part of a patient's body, it draws
	off diseased mumia from that part.  The magnet is then mixed
	with earth and then a plant is grown in the earth.  The
	diseased mumia passes into the plant and the patient gets well.
	Paracelsus also used magnets to cure diseases caused by an
	imbalance or improper distribution of the basic components
	of the patient's body (and, much ealier, both Plato and Galen
	had said that disease is caused by imbalance of the body's
	components or elements)....

	These ideas were carried further two hundred years later by
	Franz Mesmer and his followers.  Mesmer published a thesis
	in 1766, in which he sadi that the movements of the planets
	affect the human body through an invisible fluid in which
	everything in the universe is immersed.  He first thought
	this fluid was electricity, but he later called it the fluid
	of 'animal magnetism', because it acted principally on living
	creatures and had magnetic properties....

	Mesmer's discovery that the magnetic fluid could apparently
	be controlled by the operator's will was the foundation of
	mesmerism and hypnotism.  His theories have also influenced
	occultists and had a profound effect on Eliphas Levi.  Levi
	identified the fluid of animal magnetism with the astral
	light, which exists in all the phenomena of the universe.
	It is both a substance and a force, a fluid and a type of
	light, and it was created by God's command 'Let there be
	Light.' [cf. GDawnian and Crowleyan rites which include the
	utterance 'Fiat LVX' as an essential element of the emanation
	of the Word of the mage; mu].  Like a magnet, it has opposite]
	poles.  It carries good and evil, it transmits light and
	propagates darkness.  The astral body is formed of it and it
	can be controlled by the human will [note the predominance of
	focus on 'will' among pre-Crowleyites; mu].  It is the astral
	light, he explains in _Key of the Mysteries_, which is 'the
	fluidic and living gold' of alchemy and to control it is to
	achieve mastery of all things.  'To direct the magnetic
	forces is then to destroy or create forms; to produce to all
	appearance, or to destroy bodies; it is to exercise the
	almight power of Nature.' [or that of 'God' should one be
	inclined of this mentality; mu]

	The belief in the existence of an Elixir of Life is a
	reflection of the magical theory that man is potentially
	divine.  God is eternal and incorruptible, and it follows
	that somewhere, if man could only reach it, immortality
	waits for him, too.

	_The Black Arts_, by Richard Cavendish, Putnam's Sons,
		1967; pp. 189-95.  [] bracketed are mu-comments.
	__________________________________________________________

	
and Crow:

	MEDIAEVAL AND RENAISSANCE ALCHEMY

	*Origin and Antecedents*.  The occult science of Alchemy
	bears much the same relation to Chemistry that Astrology
	does to Astronomy.  It is not, as was thought in the
	Victorian epoch, the early strivings towards chemical
	science, although alchemists did make chemical discoveries.
	In the Middle Ages and earlier it seemed inconceivable that
	anyone should want to study the pure science of matter,
	Chemistry.  The latter was only the means to an end.
	Alchemy was not a pure science.  It was applied to human ends.

	Alchemy had three main objects:

	1. The transmutation of the base metals into gold, or more
	generally the conversion of abundant relatively useless
	material into rare useful substances.  The transmutation
	into gold was generally believed to be possible provided
	one could discover the *Philosopher's Stone*, which was to
	be the agent of the transformation.  Sometimes instead of
	a stone, a red or brown powder (*powder of Projection*)
	was used.

	2. The prolongation of life indefinitely, or more generally,
	the cure of all disease and senility.  This was to be effected
	by an agent, generally thought of as a liquid, called the
	*Elixir of Life*.

	3. The creation of a human being from non-living chemical
	materials, such as an artificial man being called the *android*
	or *homunculus* [cf. the IX' secret document 'De Homunculus' in
	which Crowley relates sex magick secrets in the fabrication of
	the Magical Child, described previously in this series and
	conflated with the fabrication of the 'Elixir of Life' as the
	effluvia of ritualized sexuality in prescribed circumstances,
	often fabricating an astral or magical being to carry to fruition
	the desire/will of the magician; mu]; or in more general terms,
	to create living things from non-living [cf. various genesis
	stories in which the gods effect this very thing, being immortal
	and able to transmute substances from one to another; mu].

	It is interesting to note that modern science has to some extent
	achieved what the alchemists were trying to do.  The transmutation
	of the elements is now effected, and it is even possible to
	produce gold, although it is not worth while to do so from a
	commercial point of view.  Life has been prolonged to some degree
	by the discovery of the functions of vitamins and hormones, and
	the role of mineral salts.  The artificial synthesis of living
	things (although only of ultramicroscopic viruses) has been
	effected from complex chemicals.

	However, the alchemists did not work along the lines of modern
	science.  They constantly reiterated the need for prayer and
	religious devotion as affecting the work....  The alchemist,
	according to [Jung's idea that "unconscious psychic factors
	entered into the work"], was not only doing chemical experiments,
	but was undergoing his own psychological development at the same
	time....

	... alchemy was practiced in ancient Egypt and among the Taoists
	of China.  It is from the former that alchemy takes its rise in
	the West, and Hermes Trismegistus was regarded as the chief
	founder of the science.....

	_A History of Magic, Witchcraft and Occultism_, by W.B. Crow,
		Whilshire Book Co, 1979; pp. 199-200. [] bracketed
		are mu-comments or rephrasings/condensation (re: Jung).
	_______________________________________________________________


and lastly, Seligmann:

	The Principles of Alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone

	What was the theory upon which the adepts based their practice?
	They have claimed that two principles -- the theory of the
	composition of metals, and that of their generation -- have
	served as the basis for their system.  To them, metals were
	composed of diverse substances, and all of them contained
	sulphur and mercury: varying proportions produced gold, silver,
	copper, etc.  Gold was supposed to be composed of a large
	proportion of mercury and little sulphur; in copper, both
	ingredients existed approximately in equal quantities.  Tin
	was an imperfect mixture of a small quantity of impure
	mercury and a large proportion of sulphur, and so forth.

	The Arab, Geber, had professed this in the eighth century,
	and affirmed that according to the ancients one could by
	efficacious operations vary the contents of metals and
	transmute one into another.  The theory of generation is
	formulated quite clearly in the medieval alchemical treatises.
	The theorists compared the process that was taking place in
	their vessels [cf. Grant's reference to 'vessels of earth' in
	previous posts on this subject; mu] to the generation of
	animals and vegetables.  Thus, for the producing of metals,
	it was necessary to discover their seed. [note the focus
	here on 'seed' and how this relates to the concepts of human
	reproduction and the presumption of male-origination; mu]

	For the adepts there existed no such phenomenon as an inorganic
	substance; every substance was endowed with life.  Life was
	influenced secretly by the stars, silent artisans working
	towards the perfection of metals.  At first imperfect, they
	changed gradually into perfect substances, and the process
	ended when they were ultimately transformed into gold.  A few
	Hermetics who had comprehended the meaning of the serpent
	biting its own tail [ouroboros; mu] supposed that the perfect
	metals were to undergo new transformations only to return
	again to base metals.  Thus they were to perpetuate the circuit
	of molecular change.

	However, these were only theories, and transmutation had to
	be accomplished in order to prove them.  From the twelfth
	century on, the alchemists declared that for their transmu-
	tations an agent was necessary.  This agent they called by
	many names -- the philosopher's stone, the philosophic powder,
	the great elixir, the quintessence, etc.  When touching the
	liquid metals, the philosopher's stone was thought to change
	them into gold.  The descriptions of this marvellous substance
	vary among different writers....

	Besides its power to transmute metals, the philosopher's stone
	had other marvellous virtues: it could cure all diseases and
	prolong life beyond its natural limits [note the paradigm here
	portrayed such that the work of the alchemists is a supernatural
	feat, one which bends the normal course of 'natural' events; mu].
	These virtues of the philosopher's stone have their counterpart
	in the Far East.  China also had its adepts, indeed before
	alchemy was known to the West.  ...Chinese alchemy is mentioned
	here because it possibly promoted Occidental alchemy.

	The Chinese, believing that gold was immortal, thought that
	when it was absorbed by the human body it could rended a man
	immortal.  The problem was to discover the 'wonder preparation
	of medicine', for gold powder could not be digested.  They
	wanted to find means other than that of breaking the metal up
	into small particles.  It was to be dissolved into a marvellous
	powder, a gold dust which 'spread mistily like wind driven by
	rain' through the five organs.  Such a powder could be obtained
	only through an alchemical operation.  The universal medicine,
	'*huantan*', freed its owner from all worldly miseries [note
	that this is a consistent theme regarding the results of mystic
	practices and disciplines; cf. Vedantic 'moksha' and the Buddhist
	'nirvana' as liberations; mu].  New teeth would grow, dark hair
	would cover the old man's baldness [thus, perhaps, 'Lao Tzu' or 
	'Old Boy'; mu], and his sick wife would regain her girlhood.

	...The Chinese alchemist used magical formulas in his work, and
	he trusted in the beneficent influence of the stars on his
	various and laborious procedures.

	Contrary to Western beliefs, the Chinese supposed that artificial
	gold, not true gold, was endowed with great magical power.  From
	cinnabar, a mercury ore, and other metals, the masters of the East
	strove to develop alloys which *resembled* gold.  It was sufficient
	to eat regularly from vessels made of such alloys to have
	immortality granted.  But the great Wei Po-Yang (*ca.* A.D. 100-
	150) did not have recourse to such artificiality.  He succeeded
	in manufacturing the true gold medicine [probably in pill form,
	which was a common fabrication: the Pill of Immortality; mu],
	and he and his pupil Yu became immortal, together with the wise
	man's dog which had eaten the scraps left on the plate ['is a god
	to live in a dog?'; 'does a dog have the buddha-nature?'; mu].
	The Chinese aimed 'only' at rejuvenation and eternal life, and
	the philosopher's gold was unknown to them.  Their art can be
	traced back to about 100 or 150 B.C., an epoch when alchemy was
	unknown in the West....

	The philosopher's stone contained marvellous virtues which may
	be called magical.  This is what the learned Agrippa has to say
	about it:

		An operation cannot proceed from a mere body.  All
		famous Poets and Philosophers affirm therefore that
		the world and all celestial bodies must have a soul,
		and also intelligence; hence, Marcus Manilius, in his
		_Astronomy to Augustus_, sings of:

			'The great corporeal world, which doth appear
			In divers forms, of air, earth, sea and fire,
			A divine soul doth rule, a deity
			Doth govern wisely....'

		...And Virgil, richest in philosophy, sings thus:

			'And first the heaven, earth, and liquid plain,
			The moon's bright globe and stars titanian
			A spirit fed within, spread through the whole*
			And with the huge leap** mix'd infused a soul;
			Hence man and beasts and birds derive their strain
			And monsters floating in the marbled main; 
			These seeds have fiery vigour***, and a birth
			Of heavenly race, but clogg'd with heavy earth.'
	
	[mu notes: 
	    * - development of the Body of Light, and parallel to the 
		generation of an 'adamantine body' and/or the 'magical 
		child within', perhaps relating to the Thelemic 'secret
		self' or 'dwarf self'; 

	   ** - possibly related to later Rosicrucian/Hermetic ideas of
		of the 'Leap Across the Abyss' and perhaps 'Leap of Faith';

	  *** - again the seeds are the source, relate 'vigour' and 
		'VITRIOL'.  to wit:

		 	Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando
			Invenies Occultum Lapidem.  "Visit the 
			interior parts of the earth: by 
			rectification thou shalt find the hidden 
			stone."  Its initials make the word 
			V.I.T.R.I.O.L., the Universal Solvent....
	
			This "hidden stone" is also called the  
			Universal Medicine.  It is sometimes
			described as a stone, sometimes a powder,
			sometimes as a tincture.  It divides again
			into two forms, the gold and the silver,
			the red and the white [Lion/Eagle; mu];
			but its essence is always the same, and
			its nature is not to be understood except
			by experience.  It is because the alchemists
			were dealing with substances on the border-
			land of "matter" that they are so difficult
			to understand.  The subject-matter of
			chemistry and physics in modern times is
			what they would have called the study of
			dead things; for the real difference
			between living things and dead is, in the
			first instance, their behaviour.

			_The Book of Thoth_, Crowley, 
				Weiser, 1981; p. 104 ('Art').
			___________________________________________]

		What do these verses seem to mean other than that the world
		should have not only a spirit-soul but also should partake
		of the divine mind; and that the original virtue, vigour of
		all inferior things, depend upon the soul of the world?
		All Platonists, Pythagoreans, Orpheus, Trismegistus,
		Aristotle, Theophrastus, Avicenna, Algazel, and all
		Peripatetics confess and confirm this....

	There are four essences in the universe upon which not only Agrippa
	but all the learned through the centuries have agreed.  These are
	fire, water, earth and air.  However, there is a fifth essence,
	or quintessence, which permeates everything above in the stars and
	below upon earth.  It is the world soul-spirit which animates all
	bodies.  It is 'clogg'd with heavy earth', and never free or visible.
	Yet it is omnipresent, and he who can free this fifth element from
	the matter that it inhabits shall hold in his hand the creative
	power with which God has endowed the world of matter.  The ancient
	goddesses of growth and vegetation, like Isis, were nothing more
	to the alchemist than the emblems of the quintessence, the
	generative power that resides in the philosopher's stone.

	_The History of Magic and the Occult_, by Kurt Seligmann,
		Harmony Books, 1975; pp. 93-6.
	___________________________________________________________________

personally I find the dualistic concept of ghosts inhabiting bodily meat-
puppets in the 'gross earth plane' objectionable, though I do see that
it is a compelling paradigm.  I tend to favor viewing these words and
their sources as metaphors in explaining the subjective and objective
experiences, and how these may be refined and rarefied into a kind of
'resurrection', a mystical consciousness-state which is pointed toward
in the prescription to 'become as little children'; entering into a kind
of revised or renewed 'Paradise' spoken of by countless religious.  

these latter typically understand their words literally.  though 
metaphorically, and as pertains to present-centered, living consciousness, 
it has born me many fruits and is substantiated by my own magical workings.

	
#>that formula includes femina superiora (symbolized by the Tau cross) in
#>coitus with sustained movement and ejaculation-delay.  apparently this
#>is supposed to be similar to 'building up a charge' when silk is rubbed
#>vigorously against a glass rod.  the intercourse is referred in metaphor
#>to a ship in a storm, the 'captain' being the phallus or male (likely on
#>account of his ability to determine most precisely when the threshold
#>of ejaculation is about to occur and may thus communicate it to the 
#>priestess).
#
#The result of this has been a state of visual clarity resembling what I have 
#attained through use of LSD.  On occasion, that is.

the persistence and stabilization of that 'occasional' experience or its
deeper form appears to be a common objective of mystical and magical 
exploration and discipline.


#I found that the most impressive results I obtained were during a period of my 
#life when I was shuttling between four different lovers, frequently all in a 
#weekend.  I attributed this to the variations of expectations and preferences 
#I encountered.  Unfortunately, at the time this was going on, my interest was 
#not fixed on the metaphysical aspects of the union.

sometimes fixations can be a detriment to the work, sometimes a benefit.


#>it is true that to some extent these are psycho-
#>somatic skills (esp. the first), but there is a definite relationship
#>between the breath and tension-relaxation of the body and at least the
#>latter.  

I'd clarify this.  by 'first' I meant recovery of erection.  by 'latter'
I meant the delaying of orgasm, which you appear to have understood.  the
original text was transposed, which I shall manually rectify.


#Confirms/fits my experience.  I had had a long term relationship with a woman 
#who was slow in coming, but very convulsive once there, which dragged me to 
#ejaculation despite myself.  With a different lover, her breathing pattern 
#during her orgasm was such that my orgasm was frequently delayed significantly, 
#sometimes to the point that I was unable to reach orgasm.  Since she had 
#multiple orgasms, I found myself approaching, then receding from orgasm 
#repeatedly.

coordination with partners (however many these be) is an imperative element
of the science of intimatics (of which 'tantric sex' or 'sex magick' is one
element).


#>PREVENTING EJACULATION
#
#>everything snipped
#
#Very interesting.  Thanks for the post.

you're welcome.  thanks for the inspiration to elaborate.

E6/6/6

tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
xiwangmu