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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.astrology,alt.tarot,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: lorax666 
Subject: 3 Cosmic Planetary Sequences in Magic/Religion ('Chaldean'/Weekday/Nigris)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:40:05 GMT

50031021 viii om

lorax666:
#># I constructed the Planetary Order Talisman as a .sig 
#># file in order to publicize this esoteric secret to 
#># the magicoreligious communities online.

see below.
 
Caliban :
#> Esoteric secret??? 

sri catyananda :
# Esoteric is a word that covers all manner of ways of
# ordering and relating planets and their deific or
# angelic/demonic symbolism, and this particular sequence is
# distinctly occult or hidden in that it never comes up in
# works of practical magic, so "esoteric secret" seems a fair
# enough term. 

'known by few', but I'll try to remedy this. ;>

# Although the so-called "Nigris" order is apparent to the
# eyes if one uses a septagram (seven pointed star) to derive
# the planetary sequences, 

this is not always true. 2 of the 3 sequences are likely
to be apparent to the eye, the third (whatever is *not*
indicated by the style of septagram drawn -- there is an
'outside' one like in my signature sigil and in the Sigil
of Aemeth by Dr. John Dee AKA 'the Star of Babalon' and
attributed to Venus, which skips a point per turn, and 
there is an 'inside' one, skipping 2 points at a turn). 

usually in *either* of these figures the circular 
sequence, like the numbers on a clock face, are one of 
the 2 main sequences and the one connected by the lines 
of the septagram is the other, the third (usually the 
Nigris) left to the unconnected remaining septagram.

# no one has named it heretofore. 

true, as far as I know.

# The question i would ask nagasiva is not "Why was the only
# other possible sequence never named or used in all these
# centuries?" 

for which of course I have no answer.

# but the much more esoteric question, "What do you make 
# of this third order symbolically, beyond the evident 
# curiousness of its abandonment?" 

       KEY (ASTRONOMICAL : and 4 = EARTH)
       =============================================
          1  -2      -3    -M   -5   -6      -7 
          Sun-Mercury-Venus-Moon-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn

there seem to be *2* predominant arrangements (out of
the possible 14) for each sequence which have been 
emphasized by traditional sources (notes include: 
* -- primary emphasis; ** secondary emphasis, if any):

------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEEKDAY SEQUENCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *1-M-5-2-6-3-7  7-3-6-2-5-M-1    *SUN      (Sunday)
                                             MOON     (Monday)
                                             MARS     (Tuesday)
                                             MERCURY  (Wednesday)
                                             JUPITER  (Thursday)
                                             VENUS    (Friday)
                                             SATURN   (Saturday)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                             mean           terracentric
ANCIENTS/'CHALDEAN' ARRANGEMENTS             motion (out)   spheres (in)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
          **M-2-3-1-5-6-7  7-6-5-1-3-2-M*  **MOON          *SATURN
                                             MERCURY        JUPITER
                                             VENUS          MARS
                                             SUN            SUN
                                             MARS           VENUS
                                             JUPITER        MERCURY
                                             SATURN         MOON
------------------------------------------------------------------------
NIGRIS ARRANGEMENTS (implied)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *2-1-6-M-3-5-7  7-5-3-M-6-1-2**?

        (A)   *MERCURY         SATURN   (B)
                   SUN         MARS
               JUPITER         VENUS
                  MOON         MOON
                 VENUS         JUPITER
                  MARS         SUN
                SATURN         MERCURY

Analysis (A)

       its commencement with Mercury is in part my choice (because
       it implies *magic*, communication, and Tahutian flavours)
       and in part because it is really the only of the 14 
       possible 7-Planet series obtained via the other two.

       that it proceeds with the more benefic masculine Planets
       and thence to the feminine before returning to the malefics
       is a signicant spectrum whose round seems cyclical, thus:

       --------------------------------------------------------------

                (i) Mercury                     
                                             (vii) Saturn
              (ii) Sun                         
                                             (vi) Mars
               (iii) Jupiter
                           (iv) Moon  (v) Venus

       --------------------------------------------------------------
        Illustration. Nigris Sequence.
       --------------------------------------------------------------

       the 3 M-Planets (Mercury, Mars, and Moon), straddle the 
       largest of their compatriots (Sun, Jupiter). the Weekday
       Sequence is easily seen skipping from ii-Sun to iv-Moon
       and onward through the week. the 'Chaldean' (Greek) Order
       of Planets reconstructs by skipping from iv-Moon to
       i-Mercury and onward ending at vii-Saturn.
       
       extending the system to include Planets 8-9-10 yields
       
                        2-1-6-8-10-M-3-5-7-9 

       for Nigris Sequence oriented to spheres and septiciphered.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analysis (B)
             SATURN  MARS  VENUS  MOON  JUPITER  SUN  MERCURY

           *2-1-6-M-3-5-7  7-5-3-M-6-1-2**?


#> The Chaldean order of planets did not determine the 
#> order of the 7 days of the week, 

that sounds pretty certain. I'm not so sure, since I see 
no logic for this order other than ciphered astronomical.
beyond the astronomical (and therefore cosmological), 
what would you suggest *did* determine this order?

#> nor is there any "secret" about it. Any good book on
#> Esoteric Astrology expounds on this in far more detail 
#> (and is much more readable).

actually I haven't seen too much describing the meaning
for the *order* of the Planets, but it wouldn't surprise
me if there was explanatory text about it by astrologers.

# Siva did not say that the Chaldean order "determined" the
# order of the 7 days of the week. 

no, but it wouldn't surprise me too much.

# He wrote:
#>#  the 'Chaldean Order of the Planets' (the 7 visible Planets)
#>#  is an old magical symbol-structure keyed to the astronomical
#>#  observation of the night sky whose sequence is derived from
#>#  the apparent motion of the various celestial 'movers' (i.e.
#>#  'planets'), from our satellite Moon and stellar Sun to 
#>#  Saturn and others orbiting Sol).
#
# He went on to explain how the three sequences -- the
# Chaldean (so-called) and the Weekday and the Nigris
# (so-called) can be converted from one to another
# mathematically through the use of a septagram or a
# "skipping" pattern. He did not say that such a skipping
# pattern was the METHOD used by ancient astronomer-
# astrologers to determine the order of the days of the 
# week.

until I hear how it occurred otherwise, why not presume it?
maybe they got the Weekday Sequence from tables of Decans 
or something. :>

#># it is keyed to both esoteric (e.g. Agrippan)
#># and mundane (solar calendar, Sunday/Monday/Tuesday=>Saturday)
#># contexts. the method of derivation may be simplified by mapping
#># these to a septagram/heptagram (7-pointed star), and the Nigris
#># Sequence is a unique discovery (along with its reverse) which I'd
#># like to make available to the esoteric community of modern times.
#
# See? He did not mention the Chaldeans here. He said the
# method of derivation (of one sequence from any of the
# others) may be simplified by use of a septagram. 

two septagram figures may be used to do it.

# By that he
# means only that by means of a seven-pointed star the
# conversion can be made from one sequence to another or, in
# his words, the sequences can be "keyed to" one another --
# and that this is true of the third sequence -- the
# apparently recognized but never named sequence -- as well as
# the two better known ones. 

that's it in a nutshell, yes.

# ...If ...the third sequence has been previously named,
# cite a reference. If you find (as i did, after a brief
# session of checking my library) that he is right and that
# the third planetary sequence is recognized as mathematically
# inevitable but apparently has never been named or used in
# any school of esoteric teaching....

that would be fun. :>

#> Unique discovery??? Please see The Arkana Dictionary Of Astrology.
#> "The astrologer Libra sets out the order (of the septenary star),
#> ascribing a planet to each of the seven points of the star, with the
#> Sun at the top." p. 95
#
# Yes, but this book does not NAME the third sequence, does it? 

in what sequence are the Planets in this arrangement?

# There are NAMES for the other two sequences, but no NAME for
# the third sequence. 
#
# I don't know why that is. He doesn't claim to know why
# either. He simply decided to NAME it, that's all, while
# awaiting citations from anyone (yourself included) that it
# was ever given a name before he named it the Nigris
# Sequence. 

principles of associative magical symbolism benefit from
natural resonances with mystical devices constructed with
a broad sweep of comprehension and philosophic acuity. 

presentation of occult data figures prominently in its
general content, running as a thematic and characteristic
harmonic through the entirety of some arcane resources
(Agrippa's Three Books being but one example, which 
uses the 'Chaldean' Sequence for its harmonic code).
 
lorax666

     ===========================================================
     =====  (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) =====
      WEEKDAYS : 1-M-5-2-6-3-7 (weekdays in the solar calendar)
      ANCIENTS : M-2-3-1-5-6-7 (mean terracentric motion order)
       NIGRIS  : 2-1-6-M-3-5-7 (a mysterious, hidden sequence!)
     ===========================================================
      PLAN-KEY : 1-2-3-M-5-6-7 (Sun-Merc-Ven-Moon-Mars-Jup-Sat)
     ========== (Rotating Wisdom From The Ancients!) ===========
     ===========================================================