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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,alt.magick,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.religion.sexuality From: xiwangmuSubject: Tantric Sex-Vampirism and Satanism (was I'm really incensed) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:26:31 GMT 50020122 VI! om durgasoft@zelgo.com (Satish Bhardwaj): >in this board usenet newsgroup (the newsgroup in question was alt.magick.tyagi), whose information file you may find at: http://www.luckymojo.com/faqs/fam.-------.trad > tantra magick, vampirism, satanism are bein discussed. tantra magick? I didn't see any Bertiaux or Grant. tantra magic, perhaps? this seems to be played down. vampirism? I didn't see any Anne Rice or Taoist Alchemy Chi-Siphoning. Satanism? true, but it wasn't cross-posted to alt.magick.tantra or to alt.religion.tantra (from which you may be coming). > That is a shame. no! alt.magick.tyagi is a confluence of magical and mystical discussion. you should return to your local and limited newsgroup where subject topics are restricted so as to refine and codify minds to crackly crunch. meta-knowledge syntheses are not easily come-by! > Sex tantra is not satanism or vampirism. actually this is not entirely true. let's take them one at a time, and I'll cross-post this to the alt.magick.tantra newsgroup so that we can get more information from traditionals. Sex Tantra -- this is, outside certain novel usages, a misuse of the term 'tantra', though it is rational to argue it. better would be the typical 'tantric sex' or even 'Tantric sex, though the latter has been shown to largely be symbolic by such valuable proponents and newsgroup-creators as Tzimon Yliaster (whose posts here and in alt.religion.tantra I do miss). tantric sex is actually Neo-Tantric sex, and this has more to do with ESO (Extended Sexual(!) Orgasm -- what orgasm *isn't* sexual??), the Karezza of Alice Bunker Stockham, and the variety of sex-awareness and sex-enhancement techniques which seek to utilize the mystique surrounding the term "tantra" to proliferate their methods. Tantric sex is a minor portion of an age-old religious and mystical tradition which is adequately introduce by such authors as Bharati's "The Tantric Tradition", which correctly describes the symbolism as sexual but equally properly spells out the limitations typically imposed on these symbols as they extend into the relatively tame lives of mystics and renunciates (to whom one might refer as 'tyagis', the reason that alt.magick.tyagi and alt.magick.tantra are in some ways overlapping in interest -- in the former 'tyagi' is meant to imply general mysticism while 'magick' is intended to incorporate the vast material to be found in the subject of occultism). satanism (/Satanism) -- generally this does not intersect with tantric sex, though the history of portrayals of satanism (condemnation schemes and propagandistic nightmares intended for the displacement of non-Christian minority religions) within "sabbats" and orgies. the religion (or perhaps anti-religion) of Satanism does at in minor instances overlap into Neo-Tantra, though this is typically either non-identified as such or only does so within the confines of the writings and experiences of certain strange mystics (e.g. nagasiva yronwode, the Satantric). vampirism -- this is more of a phenomenon than any particular ideology or sociological tradition, though it draws from folk tales and classic literature (e.g. Stoker's "Dracula") as well as from the writings of popular fiction authors like Anne Rice and live-action role-playing games. usually those who are interested in vampirism don't overlap with Neo-Tantra at all outside certain fetish clubs and communities (cf. BDSM, and the Goth Scene). that said, there *are* vampiric aspects to some of the Neo- Tantric and/or even Tantric sexual activities (as well as, and particularly to be found amongst Taoist sex alchemists). the particulars to which I am referring may be briefly outlined in several segments as follows: * Crowley/Grant/Bertiaux -- sex magick so called as practiced or at least advocated by these authors at times takes on a male-centered and quasi- tantric character that may focus upon such things as consumption of (often menstrual) blood as part of magical and/or mystical practice. * Sakti/Kali/Chinnamasta -- certain (and especially (Neo-) Tantric practices focus on "bloodthirsty" goddesses like Kali and Chinnamasta, perhaps at times including the consumption of some kind of blood or offerings of blood to the goddess. usually this is characterized as blood-offerings, however, by devotees (e.g. goat sacrifice for Kali) and there is little if any described vampirism on the part of the devotees themselves. there may be exceptions to this on the part of Devidasis who undertake a complete identification with (/possession by) such bloodthirsty goddesses, though I haven't heard of any as yet myself. * Uncommon Religious Tantrics -- sex mysticism that centers on male practitioners sometimes treats the psychospiritual "energy" (by whatever name, but typically prana or kundalini or sakti) of the sex partner as a reservoir which may be "vampirized" (my characterization, not theirs), or utilized for the purposes of mystical advancement, and commonly without the participation or knowledge of the partner vampirized. * Taoist Sex Alchemists -- associated with at least Neo-Tantra and, probably historically, with religious Tantra as well, the techniques described for sex mystics of Taoism quite often include some kind of vampiric component, usually focussed on the psychospiritual "energy" called chi or ki. such vampirism is typically undertaken by *male* adepts, at least in theory (as they are more likely to be part of communities dedicated to such practice), but there are stories of female adepts and those who have obtained immortality through draining the chi of sex partners (e.g. the Queen Mother of the West, or Xiwangmu). that's all I can think of off-hand, though it wouldn't surprise me if there were many more! > Any thing done to create this implication is disgusting in itself. to each their own. > In one of my posts I discussed the reasons behind the practice of > tantra. in all cases? you must be generalizing here and I'll presume you are talking about religious Tantric practice and history. > And the reason was performance of sexual duty between husbands and > wives without incurring the wrath of Gods. So it was thought that > if the [sex] was performed and no body drived any pleasure there > will be angering the gods. that's really nice! typically I've heard Tantric adepts or advocates describe the deriving of pleasure from the practice as ITSELF problematic! it is really very kind of the gods to get angry because nobody is experiencing pleasure from the Tantric sex. very lovely! > But if one was interested in sex magic oned should study books from > http://durgasoft.tripod.com/clickbank.html it appears, based on the web page you have specified above, that you are part of the Neo-Tantra community, focussed on relationships, good sex, and a variety of romantic and dating options and sales. it would be at least good business if you became somewhat familiar with your competitors in your Neo-Tantric community, especially before you slam them (us?) with generalizations about what is and is not "Sex Tantra". tune in more often to alt.magick.tantra. ask more questions about the practice of "tantric sex", and see for yourself what overlaps there may be between these subjects before you embarrass yourself this way. xiwangmu
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