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Tantric Sex-Vampirism and Satanism

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,alt.magick,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.religion.sexuality
From: xiwangmu 
Subject: Tantric Sex-Vampirism and Satanism (was I'm really incensed)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:26:31 GMT

50020122 VI! om (Satish Bhardwaj):
>in this board 

usenet newsgroup (the newsgroup in question was alt.magick.tyagi),
whose information file you may find at:

> tantra magick, vampirism, satanism are bein discussed.

tantra magick? I didn't see any Bertiaux or Grant.
tantra magic, perhaps? this seems to be played down.
vampirism? I didn't see any Anne Rice or Taoist Alchemy Chi-Siphoning.
Satanism? true, but it wasn't cross-posted to alt.magick.tantra or to
alt.religion.tantra (from which you may be coming).

> That is a shame. 

no! alt.magick.tyagi is a confluence of magical and mystical discussion.
you should return to your local and limited newsgroup where subject
topics are restricted so as to refine and codify minds to crackly crunch.
meta-knowledge syntheses are not easily come-by!

> Sex tantra is not satanism or vampirism. 

actually this is not entirely true. let's take them one at a time, and
I'll cross-post this to the alt.magick.tantra newsgroup so that we can
get more information from traditionals.

	Sex Tantra -- 

	this is, outside certain novel usages, a misuse of the term
	'tantra', though it is rational to argue it. better would
	be the typical 'tantric sex' or even 'Tantric sex, though
	the latter has been shown to largely be symbolic by such
	valuable proponents and newsgroup-creators as Tzimon Yliaster
	(whose posts here and in alt.religion.tantra I do miss).	

	tantric sex is actually Neo-Tantric sex, and this has more
	to do with ESO (Extended Sexual(!) Orgasm -- what orgasm
	*isn't* sexual??), the Karezza of Alice Bunker Stockham,
	and the variety of sex-awareness and sex-enhancement
	techniques which seek to utilize the mystique surrounding
	the term "tantra" to proliferate their methods.

	Tantric sex is a minor portion of an age-old religious and
	mystical tradition which is adequately introduce by such
	authors as Bharati's "The Tantric Tradition", which correctly
	describes the symbolism as sexual but equally properly spells
	out the limitations typically imposed on these symbols as
	they extend into the relatively tame lives of mystics and
	renunciates (to whom one might refer as 'tyagis', the reason
	that alt.magick.tyagi and alt.magick.tantra are in some ways
	overlapping in interest -- in the former 'tyagi' is meant to
	imply general mysticism while 'magick' is intended to
	incorporate the vast material to be found in the subject of

	satanism (/Satanism) --

	generally this does not intersect with tantric sex, though the
	history of portrayals of satanism (condemnation schemes and
	propagandistic nightmares intended for the displacement of 
	non-Christian minority religions) within "sabbats" and orgies.
	the religion (or perhaps anti-religion) of Satanism does at
	in minor instances overlap into Neo-Tantra, though this is
	typically either non-identified as such or only does so within
	the confines of the writings and experiences of certain strange
	mystics (e.g. nagasiva yronwode, the Satantric).

	vampirism --

	this is more of a phenomenon than any particular ideology or
	sociological tradition, though it draws from folk tales and
	classic literature (e.g. Stoker's "Dracula") as well as from
	the writings of popular fiction authors like Anne Rice and
	live-action role-playing games. usually those who are
	interested in vampirism don't overlap with Neo-Tantra at all
	outside certain fetish clubs and communities (cf. BDSM, and
	the Goth Scene). 

	that said, there *are* vampiric aspects to some of the Neo-
	Tantric and/or even Tantric sexual activities (as well as,
	and particularly to be found amongst Taoist sex alchemists).  

	the particulars to which I am referring may be briefly outlined
	in several segments as follows:

		* Crowley/Grant/Bertiaux -- sex magick so called as
		  practiced or at least advocated by these authors
		  at times takes on a male-centered and quasi-
		  tantric character that may focus upon such things
		  as consumption of (often menstrual) blood as part
		  of magical and/or mystical practice.

		* Sakti/Kali/Chinnamasta -- certain (and especially
		  (Neo-) Tantric practices focus on "bloodthirsty"
		  goddesses like Kali and Chinnamasta, perhaps at
		  times including the consumption of some kind of
		  blood or offerings of blood to the goddess. usually
		  this is characterized as blood-offerings, however,
		  by devotees (e.g. goat sacrifice for Kali) and there
		  is little if any described vampirism on the part of
		  the devotees themselves. there may be exceptions to
		  this on the part of Devidasis who undertake a
		  complete identification with (/possession by) such
		  bloodthirsty goddesses, though I haven't heard of
		  any as yet myself.

		* Uncommon Religious Tantrics -- sex mysticism that
		  centers on male practitioners sometimes treats the
		  psychospiritual "energy" (by whatever name, but
		  typically prana or kundalini or sakti) of the sex
		  partner as a reservoir which may be "vampirized"
		  (my characterization, not theirs), or utilized for
		  the purposes of mystical advancement, and commonly 
		  without the participation or knowledge of the 
		  partner vampirized.

		* Taoist Sex Alchemists -- associated with at least
		  Neo-Tantra and, probably historically, with
		  religious Tantra as well, the techniques described
		  for sex mystics of Taoism quite often include some
		  kind of vampiric component, usually focussed on the
		  psychospiritual "energy" called chi or ki. such 
		  vampirism is typically undertaken by *male* adepts,
		  at least in theory (as they are more likely to be
		  part of communities dedicated to such practice),
		  but there are stories of female adepts and those
		  who have obtained immortality through draining the
		  chi of sex partners (e.g. the Queen Mother of the
		  West, or Xiwangmu).

that's all I can think of off-hand, though it wouldn't surprise me if
there were many more!

> Any thing done to create this implication is disgusting in itself.

to each their own.

> In one of my posts I discussed the reasons behind the practice of
> tantra. 

in all cases? you must be generalizing here and I'll presume you are
talking about religious Tantric practice and history. 

> And the reason was performance of sexual duty between husbands and 
> wives without incurring the wrath of Gods. So it was thought that
> if the [sex] was performed and no body drived any pleasure there 
> will be angering the gods.

that's really nice! typically I've heard Tantric adepts or advocates
describe the deriving of pleasure from the practice as ITSELF
problematic! it is really very kind of the gods to get angry because
nobody is experiencing pleasure from the Tantric sex. very lovely!

> But if one was interested in sex magic oned should study books from

it appears, based on the web page you have specified above, that you
are part of the Neo-Tantra community, focussed on relationships, good
sex, and a variety of romantic and dating options and sales. it would
be at least good business if you became somewhat familiar with your
competitors in your Neo-Tantric community, especially before you slam
them (us?) with generalizations about what is and is not "Sex Tantra".

tune in more often to alt.magick.tantra. ask more questions about the
practice of "tantric sex", and see for yourself what overlaps there
may be between these subjects before you embarrass yourself this way.


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