THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

To: alt.magick.tantra
From: Re O¹Stat 
Subject: Re: Swinging and Neo-Tantra (was Learning Trad or Neo Tantra ....)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:59:07 GMT

In article <8bqltg$6d9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Elizabeth J. Jelich-Griffin 

> > > > As far as AIDS goes, the main pathway of infection is intervenious
> > > > drug use and anal intercourse. Extensive government data, both in
> > > > the U.S. and Europe, show that it's not being spread through
> > > > normal vaginal intercourse. In Africa - where anal intercourse is
> > > > common - so is AIDS. There, it's often linked to female circumcision,
> > > > where the clitorus is removed, and the vagina is sewn up, leading to
> > > > a preferance for anal sex (which, apparently, stimulates the 'G' spot,
> > > > allowing orgasm without clitoral stimulation).
> > >
> > > Excuse me, how out of date is Your research data.
> > >
> > R:" I gave you my source; what's your's?
> 
> 1. Some decent biology education (though most of it past an excellent
> high school one is self-educated)
> 2. Pamphlets from my doctor that have long since been tossed and
> irretrievable.
> 3. Lot's of educational TV that is NOT backed by government funding,
> presented in an unbiased, imho, way.



Well, then, in your educational TV you should have learned that the 
clitoris is not just the small organ seen exterior to the vagina, but 
much longer. G-spot stimulation does, in fact, stimulate another part of 
the clitoris.

The notion that cutting off the clitoris and sewing up the ³vagina² (you 
do mean the vulva, don¹t you?) will lead to a preference for anal sex
is not only demeaning but bizarre. If somebody cut off your breasts 
would you get sexual enjoyment out of having your ears rubbed? Probably 
not. Further, while one is too many, the practice of female 
³circumcision² (a misnomer if ever there was one) does not explain the 
number of AIDS cases in Africa. 

Further, your information is simply wrong. The Wall Street Journal of a 
couple of years ago printed a front page articles based on information 
from the Centers for Disease Control which clearly showed that:

1) AIDS is difficult to get
2) AIDS has not moved into the heterosexual community as was predicted.
3) The most common way of getting AIDS was through sharing needles by 
drug abusers.
4) The next most common way of getting AIDS was through unprotected anal 
intercourse, although it was still difficult to transfer unless the 
person had a depleted immune system (commen with IV drug abusers).
5) It should also be pointed out that many, perhaps most cases of AIDS 
in Africa may not be AIDS at all. Due to a lack of funds, most cases 
described as AIDS are based on the symptoms of the suferer and not on 
blood tests. Many of the symptoms of AIDS are the same as those of 
diseases which, in Africa, have been around for thousands of years. But 
they don¹t get money for those diseases from aid organizations. They do 
get it for treating AIDS. Hence, they have AIDS.
6) Those TV shows are only sharing the standard accepted story. They do 
no original research themselves.

 
> The government didn't want folks to know how bad it was, Dr. C. Everett
> Koop didn't last long as Surgeon General because he was telling too much
> of how it really was.

Oh, please! Koop lasted longer than many Surgeon Generals and now has a 
very successful life giving expensive talks.


> 
> The information comes from those concerned with HEALTH, NOT morals.
> 


No, the information comes from people concerned with making money, not 
health and not morals.



> > Despite constant repetition, that misinformation is not supported
> > by empirical data, to the best of my knowledge. If you have real
> > data to back it up, please state it.
> 
> As I said, I tossed it in the garbage years ago.

A good place for that misinformation.



> 
> 
> >
> > Lots of infected men have had unprotected sex with their wives for
> > years without spreading the disease -- Arther Ashe and Magic
> > Johnson, for example.
> 
> I thought that the reason they didn't spread it was that the disease was
> "dormant" in their systems.  Once the disease hits a particular stage,
> the person becomes more contagious?  The disease can have a fairly long
> dormancy.


I¹m sorry, but your information is incorrect. AIDS has no ³dormancy.² In 
fact, nobody gets AIDS. Rather, they become HIV+ and this leads to AIDS. 
Once you are HIV+ you can pass this to anyone. And I would point out 
that Ashe did eventually have ³full-blown² AIDS and, as far as I know, 
his wife did not develop the disease.

Perhaps a better case would be that of porn star John Holmes. He had sex 
with hundreds, perhaps thousands of women and some men. He died of AIDS. 
(Actually, nobody dies of AIDS. They die of diseases which AIDS prevents 
the body from fighting off.) None of his known sexual partners have 
contracted the disease.



> 
> > The European community has kept careful
> > track of AIDS among prostitutes - which several countries regulate
> > and have good data on - and, despite predictions that AIDs would
> > spread to the general populace via 'women of the night' the
> > epidemic never occured. Practically every case of AIDS has been
> > tied to either anal intercourse, intervenious drug use, blood
> transfusions,
> > or similar blood-to-blood contacts. Only 2 or 3% of all cases have
> > come from any other cause, according to actual data from the
> > Center for Disease Control.
> 
> So what you are saying is that "blood-to-mucouse_membrane" is not a path
> of infection?  Normal body fluids from any body part do NOT carry or
> transmit the cause of the disease?
> 

No, what is being said above is that getting AIDS through 
penile/vaginal, penile/oral or vaginal/oral sex is very difficult.




> > R: I think he was characterizing all tantric instructors who were
> > unattached and sexually active as swingers. 

I never did that. What I did say is that most Neo-Tantric instructors 
either have experimented with or are involved in swinging. Further, if 
somebody questions them about using different partners in Tantra, they 
use many of the same arguments in favor of swinging to support this 
practice. I have not ever said that most have used classes to promote 
swinging, although a few have.

Unfortunately, this has been misconstrued as me saying that most 
Neo-Tantric teachers promote swinging in their classes. I have never 
seen this nor heard of it.

Re