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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick,alt.lucky.w
From: Seyfert-1 
Subject: Magic Squares and Scientific Knowledge
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:53:26 GMT

50031229 vii om
 
"S R" :
#># a book just on Magick Squares?
 
Seyfert-1:
#> there are several. one of them is by W.S. Andrews
#> ("Magic Squares and Cubes") and is a classic....

sri catyananda:
> I too recommend "Magic Squares and Cubes," edited by 
> W. S. Andrews, 

I couldn't immediately tell that. the title page says 
"With Essays From Other Writers", but it has no editor
listed. as the book's front/side cover was marked 
externally without indication of these extra essays, 
I wasn't even sure they existed until you reminded me.
good ones, though, by Paul Carus and others.

> to anyone interested in the mathemagical aspects of
> this byway of occultism. 

indeed, or in constructing something akin to traditional
magical systems for their own use or those of their cult.

> It was first published in 1911 or
> so, but has been reprinted numerous times and should be
> quite easy to locate a copy through a library or to
> purchase it online via amazon. It is not about occultism per
> se, but it sets the necessary groundwork for understand the
> topic -- and thus to uncover why magic squares have been and
> continue to be so important to certain mages.

I can't say I'm sure I understand that from this book,
aside from the occasional hits on particular solutions
that seems to have become selected or were traditional.

the issue of whether a magic square has more POWER if
it has greater internal resonance and additive properties
isn't covered in any occult text I've ever seen. few have
the depth which Andrews and his essayists bring to the
table, but none of those writing take up the argument
from the perpective of an occultist, consider its uses
within ceremonial magic, for example, and consider why
any *particular* square might be important. historical
emphases will carry the day undoubtedly for some folx,
but there is reason to suppose the virtue of nature.

> http://www.netmastersinc.com/secrets/magic_squares.htm

interesting notes here are that in 1466 there is a clear
reversal of the mapping provided in Agrippa using the
same logic (3-Moon => 9-Saturn). that serves to support
my Experimental set very nicely. :>  appended

#># Do every planet has a Magick Square?
>
> Every one of the planets visible to the unaided eye does. 

not Earth. :>
as such, this seems evidently an 'astrological' set.
following the Agrippan arrangement below, the order
of 10x10 might be mapped to EARTH for those who care.
  
#> Agrippa they are attributed to Planets as follows
#>       SQUARE ORDER ---   PLANET
#>       -------------------------
#>             3      ---   SATURN
#>             4      ---   JUPITER
#>             5      ---   MARS
#>             6      ---   SUN
#>             7      ---   VENUS
#>             8      ---   MERCURY
#>             9      ---   MOON
#> 
#> with consideration of modern occult Planets
#> one might extrapolate the following novelty:

EARTH=13x13 for something novel like this
 
#>             3      ---   PLUTO
#>             4      ---   NEPTUNE
#>             5      ---   URANUS
#>             6      ---   SATURN
#>             7      ---   JUPITER
#>             8      ---   MARS
#>             9      ---   SUN
#>            10      ---   VENUS
#>            11      ---   MERCURY
#>            12      ---   MOON
#> 
#> based on the mean motility from Terra,
#> and thereafter achieve natural resonance.
>
> As is his wont, nagasiva goes full tilt for the 
> destruction of historic forms in light of new 
> scientific knowledge. :-)

I find it very important to consider, especially
if these are malleable symbol systems without any
necessary configuration providing a framework for
the successful operation of magical works. the
argument that some kind of density of significance 
might be ascertained by providing the actualities
observed seems to have been what drove those who
came up with the 'Chaldean' Planetary order (as
it conformed to mean motility of movement -- thus
scientific, astronomical motives seem behind it).

> ...for me it is sufficient to study and utilize 
> the system as it was written, with SEVEN "sacred 
> planets" and SEVEN "sacred magic squares." 

you seem to like the novel Planets in astrology.
some reason for that, or is it merely playfulness?

# My reasoning for this is that the magic squares find some
# use in planetary magic, and in that context they are linked
# to the days of the week and convey a significant amount of
# historical resonance and symbolic richness to magical works
# performed on each day. 

wonderfully reasoned. pragmatically it is difficult to refute.

> We have not added three new days of
> the week since the discovery of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto,

I've seriously considered this. 

after all, my annuality has shifted, there is no reason 
to remain fixed personally to a septaharmonic day-system, 
excepting for societal coordination. by virtue of cipher,
I have even determined what those days should be called, 
and where they should be located! ;>

> so to add three more "sacred squares" with or without
> displacement of the existing weekday attributions of the
> planets and their squares seems bootless to me since there
> would be no days of the week to work the new squares
> magically. 

indeed, there's the usage by which fit will be determined,
for the purpose of mapping magic squares to anything at all.

when the solar system was thought to be made up of spheres
proceeding outward from Earth to Moon etc. then it was
probably sensible to consider 'ascending the spheres' in
this order, and with this concept in mind. however, with
advance in objective knowledge, such mages are faced with 
revision of this for magical purposes or adversity to 
natural form. depending on our goal and connection with 
real things, it may not matter what we choose. 

my argument for support of the natural is its confirmed 
information value. this also gives me reason to emphasize 
standards like masonic concepts of education (Quadrivium 
and Trivium, *plus* my own selected New Trivium I get 
to invent/discover in competition with other cults!

Mark, in conversation with you about the Chaldean Order
of the Planets says
	I consider it possible that the assignment
	of the squares to the planets was made as 
	the result of a serious (and not too far 
	wrong) attempt to order the planets according 
	to their actual arrangement in the sky.

that is also my impression. I surmise that doing so
(getting a clear perspective on the cosmos) is thought
in Hermetic magical theory to allow a 'synchronization'
of the Macrocosm and the Microcosm. their dissonance 
may even be what is driving the base of human idiocy.
resolve the noise, and the whole thing might work out.

then there's the selection of the particular *solution* for
the order being considered in the mapping. all of these
proceed from pragmatic symbolic and traditional resonances
and/or cosmological considerations. 

that 7-day thing, it's heavily ingrained, agreed, but I've
not seen anything which indicates to me that it is truly
sacrosanct. the issue immediately becomes how many 
different calendars one might create and what possible
'week'-lengths are available. conformance with society
facilitates some intentions, but may not help others.

> See the W. S. Andrews compilation for numerous methods of
> construction, including a novel method devised by Benjamin
> Franklin, Freemason, Printer, and Patriot. 

that d00d is right on. there are nonOccidental squares
too, such as the 'Jaina Square' (4x4) which has some
interesting properties. uniqueness counts. :>

Seyfert-1

     ===========================================================
     =====  (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) =====
      ANCIENTS : M-2-3-1-5-6-7 (mean terracentric motion order)
       NIGRIS  : 2-1-6-M-3-5-7 (a mysterious, hidden sequence!)
      WEEKDAYS : 1-M-5-2-6-3-7 (weekdays in the solar calendar)
     ===========================================================
      PLAN-KEY : 1-2-3-M-5-6-7 (Sun-Merc-Ven-Moon-Mars-Jup-Sat)
     ========== (Rotating Wisdom From The Ancients!) ===========
     ===========================================================
================================================================
appendage
                      ASTRONOMICAL         EXPERIMENTAL
       -------------------------------------------------
            3      ---   PLUTO             SUN 
            4      ---   NEPTUNE           MERCURY 
            5      ---   URANUS            VENUS (GODDESS PENTACLE!)
            6      ---   SATURN            EARTH
            7      ---   JUPITER           MOON 
            8      ---   MARS              MARS
            9      ---   MOON              JUPITER
           10      ---   EARTH             SATURN (CYCLE COMPLETION)
           11      ---   VENUS             URANUS 
           12      ---   MERCURY           NEPTUNE 
           13      ---   SUN               PLUTO