THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.order,alt.magick.ethics,alt.magick.tantra,alt.answers,news.answers
Subject: alt.magick RULEs REFerence file
Followup-To: alt.magick
Summary: This is a REFerence file for the alt.magick newsgroup.  As such
	 it constitutes an attendant file to the alt.magick FAQ, which is
         intended as an introductory file and its content may be discussed
         within the alt.magick.* contellation.  
X-URL: http://www.luckymojo.com/altmagickfaq/
Keywords: posting rules guidelines authorities
Supercedes: 9604
References: http://www.luckymojo.com/altmagickfaq/ref.html
From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (tyaginator)
Reply-to: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (tyaginator)

Archive-name: magick/ruleref
Version: 9907
Posting-Frequency: every month or as necessary

REF: RULES

			   ALT.MAGICK RULES

  			         or

     'Proper Posting Procedures as Set Forth by Usenet Authorities' 

This REF file is designed to curtail noise in alt.magick.  Desist with your 
noise or face the wrath of those who have taken upon themselves the role 
of newsgroup Guardians and who shall squelch your off-topic conversation.  
This is the longer-winded version of josh's "go away".  

If you don't like this file, then suggest revisions.  These may be 
considered if they are persuasive.  Any posts which follow this file may 
be absorbed into it to slake its thirst for edus.
______________________________________________________________________

PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING RULES:

RULE # 1

BEFORE POSTING, ASK YOURSELF THESE QUESTIONS:

"Why am I posting?"
"What am I contributing to the newsgroup?"
"Am I posting along the subject line of the thread and newsgroup?"  
"Am I contributing to a more meaningful content of the group or just 
 trying to shut someone up or make myself look good?"
"Have I lurked long enough to JUSTIFY my naive inquiry?"
"Why are there so many snide and cynical responses?"

------- from tyagi@houseofkaosabyss.com:

I recommend lengthy experience with the newsgroup and patience in learning 
how to get what you want.  When the alt.magick newsgroup fails to perform 
to your expectations, then don't berate the mechanism.  Treat it like any 
group of volunteers who check in from time to time for both nourishment and 
comradery.  How long have you been here?  What have you given to the whole 
for which it might wish to return a favor?  What are your motives and 
commonalities with those present?

When the machine doesn't work the way you expect it to, yelling at it
will seldom yield a desirable result.  When that mechanism is a group of 
humanoids, such disrespect will only get you killfiled or flamed.

Many who post here are so new as not to understand the value or function 
of what you may place before us.  Some do not have the time to review 
specific workings.  Lots of us feel that if you make a working and feel 
comfortable with it, then it will function well for you -- that it is 
your intent and confidence which bring the fruits to bear, rather than 
the particular technik.  Opinions do vary.

Specific questions regarding particular workings yield the best results
(or data-queries).  Posting a work and asking for a review is like asking
someone to read your essay on quarks.  Those who have the time likely
don't have the interest or may well not feel qualified.  Those who feel
qualified may be busy with other things.  But who knows, you may get lucky.

asking for ways to go about achieving something magically is liable to
draw cynical responses about taking action in the material world.
in some measure it may be used to cover over ignorance about the 
realm magical to point back to the earthly world for the entirety 
of power.  it may be that the speaker has learned a very limited 
method of engaging magical acts, and seeks to promote this bias.

more often than not it is just some ignorant smart-ass who has nothing
to add to the forum except hir morality and cynicism.  this is
exemplified by those who respond to queries about spells to get laid
or to get revenge with "that is not ethical" rather than actually
contributing a spell in response. don't bother addressing these,
unless you set your Followup-to: alt.magick.ethics.

newbies don't always know how to effectively post such questions,
those with some knowledge and experience either don't care to respond
or don't want to make the time, and there is so much noise within
the alt.magick.* constellation that seldom are real issues addressed
with any candor or completeness.  there are those such as myself
who will prove to be exceptions.  you just have to target us and watch
for our posts.  some newsreaders offer this type of 'selection' and
'kill' to allow a fine-tuning of participation. sometimes cc'ing the
individuals you really want to respond yields favorable results.

------------------------------------------------------------------

RULE # 2

DON'T POST THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGICK OR RELATED TOPICS
TO THE ALT.MAGICK NEWSGROUP.

There are of course posts which come close to the border here, as when
meta-discussion must take place in order to clear up an ongoing exchange.
Some examples follow:

It is germane to the discussion to analyze the logic of arguments inherent
to the discussion at hand.  That may well be part of logical discourse 
pertaining to magick or related topics.

The source of an argument is of secondary relevance, but it can be 
constructively utilized when considering the information which that source
is presenting to the newsgroup.

Clarification of meaning is important to the discussion at hand and is
therefore relevant to the newsgroup.

What constitutes a "fair" or "good" argument should be relegated to a 
logic.newsgroup.  See alt.atheism's 'How to Construct a Logical Argument' 
REF file if you have the need.


**SUBJECT-ORIENTATION** this is what Usenet is about.  The subject of 
whether it is appropriate to post materials of a controversial nature 
should take place in one of the more administrative newsgroups.

For those who don't agree on this point, allow me to quote from the 
Usenet Posting Rules (Part 1):
____________________________________________________________________

Archive-name: posting-rules/part1
Original-author: mark@stargate.com (Mark Horton)
Last-change: 5 July 1994 by netannounce@deshaw.com (Mark Moraes)

This message describes some of the rules of conduct on Usenet.  The rules
vary depending on the newsgroup.  

Some newsgroups are intended for discussions and some for announcements
or queries.  It is not usually a good idea to carry on discussions in
newsgroups that are designated otherwise.  It is never a good idea to
carry on "meta-discussions" about whether a given discussion is
appropriate -- such traffic mushrooms until nobody can find articles
that belong.  If you are unhappy with what some user said, send him/her
mail, don't post it.

[end of quote]
____________________________________________________

This was the FIRST PARAGRAPH of that document.  I think the emphasis 
speaks for itself.

Then again:
--------------------------
If more people would just say what they feel about the actual content of
posts, and spent less time fretting over who got flamed by who and what
belongs and what doesn't belong, there'd be a lot more meaningful content 
here. 

robin@winternet.com (one star in sight)
---------------------------------------

Furthermore, even if you can't reach an author via email you still have 
no business cluttering up the newsgroup with your communication (from 
the same document quoted above):
_____________________________________________________

In general, when a mailing to somebody fails, DON'T post a message
about it!  Think for a moment: you are trying to send something to
someone on ONE system.  Your message might go through (at most) TEN
systems on the way there.  Posting a message in the news sends it to
many tens of thousands of systems throughout the world!  There is no
way to justify adding to the news load of all those machines simply
because you cannot determine how to get your mail through.

If your message is important, contact someone who knows more about the
mail system and who might be able to help you get your message
through.  Your local system administrator, for instance, or the admin
of the next site "upstream," might be able to help. You can also send
mail to "postmaster" at one of the major Usenet sites.  Almost all of
these people would rather see an occasional plea for help in their
mailbox than read another broadcast in the news system.  If your
message is *really* important, pick up the phone and try to call the
other person.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

RULE # 3

IF YOU CAN FIND ANOTHER NEWSGROUP WHICH IS MORE APPROPRIATE TO
ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION, POST IT THERE FIRST.
 
There will be cross-over, but this doesn't necessarily warrant cross-
posting!  If you don't get a response to your question about _The 
Necronomicon_ from alt.necromicon [sic!] or your tarot decks from 
alt.tarot or alt.divination, then be sure you lurk on alt.magick long 
enough to justify your newbie post.

Peggy says it more bluntly:

  "o Do not ask for love spells.
   o Do not make outrageous claims.
   o Do not use the "bunny & light" mindset commonly found on alt.pagan and
     in "newage" circles.
   o Lurk for at least a month.  2 months if you don't know what the "bunny
     and light" mindset is.
   o Do not ask for magickal duels to the death.
   o Do not threaten to harm or kill anyone via magick.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

RULE # 4

DO NOT COMPLAIN IN PUBLIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY POSTED TO THE
GROUP INAPPROPRIATELY.

Take complaints about people's post to their email.  Posting them to
alt.magick clutters the newsgroup and puts a chill on SUBSTANCE.  

It is disrespectful to *all the denizens of alt.magick* to post to it 
complaining about sensitive materials which some of the groups' 
participants agree relate to the designated subject-matter.  Do not post 
such complaints for any reason other than copyright infringement, and 
even then only if you are the copyright holder.  

If you have doubts about the post's relevance to magick, send email to the
author asking how it relates.  If this doesn't work, send email to one of
the regulars asking the same.  If someone posts consistently off-topic to
the newsgroup and no amount of complaints to their email makes a difference,
KILLFILE THEM AND FORGET ABOUT IT!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

RULE # 5

DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT ANY PARTICULAR POST IS
'PRODUCTIVE' OR WHETHER THE PERSON WHO POSTS HAS THE 'PROPER' MOTIVE.
 
Productivity isn't all there is to effective newsgroup contribution.
Sometimes NEGATIVITY is important too - DESTRUCTION of cherished 
views, values and ideas is an important life-experience for those who 
expose themselves to the Light of Reason or the Darkness of Taboo.  As 
long as it fits within the specified subject-matter of the newsgroup, 
(magick and related topics), then it is relevant.

It is not our business what motive a person has for posting as long
as the content of their post pertains to the subject matter of the
newsgroup.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

RULE # 6

DON'T BOTHER COMPLAINING TO THE GROUP WHEN YOU GET FLAMED, AND BE SURE
TO KNOW WHEN IT *HAPPENED*.

The term 'flame' is bandied overmuch in the nets and used, like so many 
other words, to oppress individual expression in a vampiric fashion.  
I'll provide what I found in the Usenet FAQ:
________________________________________________________________

Archive-name: usenet-faq/part1
Original-author: jerry@eagle.UUCP (Jerry Schwarz)
Last-change: 15 July 1994 by netannounce@deshaw.com (Mark Moraes)

		   Frequently Submitted/Asked Items

This document discusses some questions and topics that occur
repeatedly on USENET.  They frequently are submitted by new users, and
result in many followups, sometimes swamping groups for weeks. The
purpose of this note is to head off these annoying events by answering
some questions and warning about the inevitable consequence of asking
others.  

47. What is a "flame"?

A "flame" usually refers to any message or article that contains
strong criticism, usually irrational or highly emotional.  Avoid
"flames", and if you do get "flamed", relax, calm down and decide
if it's really worth "counter-flaming".  Usually, it isn't worth
it -- a complete waste of bandwidth and time....

-----------

Of course, my favorite Mockingbird, Larry (MacArthur?  Macmayhem?) writes:

This is crap, too.  The *real* rule is:

6.  Don't post here if you don't want to get flamed.  If you can't take
the head, stay out of the kitchen.  And don't worry; you *will* know
when it happens!

Fire is the cleanser that purifies the soul of the alt.mage.  Go for it.
Feel free to join in the flaming frenzy.  But don't forget rule 6.  You
are never above it, even when you are doing it.  This is probably the most
important rule other than (the real) rule 1.

________________________________________________________________

RULE # 7

DON'T PRESUME THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS IT, IT IS TRUE.

>From the Usenet group, news.answers:
________________________________________

Archive-name: posting-rules/part1
Original-author: mark@stargate.com (Mark Horton)
Last-change: 5 July 1994 by netannounce@deshaw.com (Mark Moraes)

This message describes some of the rules of conduct on Usenet.  The rules
vary depending on the newsgroup.  

All opinions or statements made in messages posted to Usenet should be
taken as the opinions of the person who wrote the message.  They do not
necessarily represent the opinions of the employer of that person, the
owner of the computer from which the message was posted, or anyone
involved with Usenet or the underlying networks of which Usenet is made
up.  All responsibility for statements made in Usenet messages rests
with the individual posting the message.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

RULE # 8

UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS YOU ARE TALKING TO
AND THAT NORMAL LEGALITIES AND PROPRIETIES WHICH ARE APPROPRIATE IN
PUBLIC ARE OFTEN APPLICABLE BEFORE THE 10,000 READERS OF ALT.MAGICK.

Don't slander or abuse people.  ABUSE THEIR OPINIONS ON MAGICK!
Don't ridicule people's person.  CRITIQUE THEIR CONCEPTS WITH SATIRE!
In short, desist from the stupid ad hominem arguments and show us
something of your experience, rationality, intuition and passion
for the SUBJECT MATTER!

------------------------------------------------

I'll add some inspiring words along these lines:

If you simply quit responding, those who agree with you will continue to 
do so, those who disagree will go on to more interesting things to argue 
about, and most people won't really worry about it too much. Josh and all 
the others who criticize your ideas won't hold that against you.

If you want to talk about elves, go ahead and do so.  Just ignore the 
flames.  If you prefer to argue, do that also.  Or just pick the people 
you want to argue with and ignore the rest.  If someone's posts annoy you, 
killfile them.  You'll never see their posts again (unless they change 
addresses or are quoted by someone not in your killfile).

Anecdotes ...are notoriously poor evidence.  There is just no way to 
verify them.

There are only two kinds of posts that don't get much controversy, 
the very wise and the utterly mad.  And they're often hard to tell apart.  

duo@teleport.com (Gratuitous Pseudonym)
=====================================================================

This document is Copyright (c) 1999, authors cited.

All rights reserved.  Permission to distribute the collection is
hereby granted providing that distribution is electronic, no money
is involved, reasonable attempts are made to use the latest version
and all credits and this copyright notice are maintained.

Other requests for distribution should be directed to the individual
authors of the particular articles.

nagasiva, tyagi
tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (I@AM)
__________________________________

go away

josh
--------------------------------

Thanks for your well thought out reply. ;-)  With a little magickal
effort we may be able to transform Tyagi's trash into a useful posting.

mcmahan@nsa.hp.com (Larry McMahan): alt.magick (re: ALT.MAGICK RULES)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
EOF