THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.order,alt.magick.ethics,alt.magick.tantra,alt.answers,news.answers
Subject: alt.magick MONK REFerence file
Followup-To: alt.magick
Summary: This is a REFerence file for the alt.magick newsgroup.  As such
	 it constitutes an attendant file to the alt.magick FAQ, which is
         intended as an introductory file and its content may be discussed
         within the alt.magick.* contellation.  The FAQ is available at:
         ftp://ftp.hollyfeld.org/pub/Esoteric/Usenet/Magick/FAQ.amgkfaq.9510
X-URL: http://www.portal.com/~tyagi/amgkfaq.html
Keywords: monk mysticism world
References: ftp://www.hollyfeld.org/pub/Esoteric/Web/Amgkfaq/
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (tyaginator)
Reply-to: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (tyaginator)

Archive-name: magick/monkref
Version: 9512
Posting-Frequency: when needed


Kocks Mika I <3mik@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote:
>...the differences between monks and priests.  ...

in Japanese lineage Zen there is no difference period. the ordination service
and vows are identical. at the beginning of the Meiji era the government of
Japan strongly encouraged the abandonment of celibacy and encouraged clergy
to marry. the difference is a matter of lifestyle choice only. the word osho
applies equally to both.

jneatrou@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Neatrour)
---------------------------------------------

In Theravada, a Monk (Bhikkhu) is "one who has gone forth" from the home life 
into homelessness.  He takes upon himself the vinaya rules (over 200) as 
dictated by the Blessed One for his training.  Total celibacy and a strict 
moral code are observed to better realize the Buddha's teachings and therby 
put an end to suffering (Nibbana).  I will reiterate from a previous post 
that there are no priests in Theravada Buddhism.  This concept is totally 
foreign.  Monks can be Dhamma teachers, or Pali scholars, they can also 
specialize in meditation and be complete hermits.  It is a very respected and 
admired way of life.  It has always been the special duty of the Sangha 
(monks) to preserve the Buddha Sasana and see that it is passed on to future 
generations for their help and benefit.

Joe verville 
--------------------------------------

Buddhist Monks/Priests (and Nuns/Priestesses(?)) are also known by the
original Sanskrit terms "Bhiksu" (and "Bhiksuni") and are referred to in the
Sutras as being part of the "Four-Fold Assembly" which would consist of
Bhiksus, Bhiksunis, Upasakas (Buddhist laymen) and Upasikas (Buddhist
laywomen). Monks and Nuns are referred to as "Left Home" people, having left
the home life to follow the Buddha's teachings. Laypersons are referred to as
"At Home" people who are householders, but dedicate a portion of their
energies to "Protect the Dharma" by supporting the Sangha, or community of
left-home Monks and Nuns

To become a Bhiksu or Bhiksuni requires a formal ordination in which Bhiksus
recieve 250 precepts and Bhiksunis recieve 348 precepts. If I remember
correctly, the Precept Platform lasts 18 days, and requires a minimum of
seven senior Sangha who have been ordained a minimum of 5 years. 

Bob_Laughton@RedwoodFN.org (Bob Laughton)
-----------------------------------------

edwarlife@aol.com (Edwarlife):
>Monks are students, priests are teachers. Monks follow, priests lead.
>Monks take orders, priests give them.

This is not quite correct.  Monks are oermitted to frant refuge.  the biggest
difference between taking refude with a monk and a lama is that four monks are
required.  So in effect, a monk can teach, since some teaching or clarification
is necessary at a refuge ceremony.

Also, there are an awful lot of monks who have Venerable attached to their name.

trick@comet.PCD1 (Patrick Walsh)
--------------------------------

Bob Laughton  wrote:
>To become a Bhiksu or Bhiksuni requires a formal ordination in which Bhiksus
>recieve 250 precepts and Bhiksunis recieve 348 precepts. If I remember
>correctly, the Precept Platform lasts 18 days, and requires a minimum of
>seven senior Sangha who have been ordained a minimum of 5 years. 

this does not apply to the case of Japanese lineages. the ordination to
the full set of precepts was made a monopoly of the Todaiji by imperial 
edict way before the 10th century. 

later lineages arriving in Japan found this very
uncomfortable as the ordination to the full set of precepts required
completing training in accord with the sect in control of Todaiji. the
founders of the Tendai and Shingon lineages were faced with the choice
restructuring the ordination or seeing their Dharma terminate without
succession. they dispensed with the 250 precepts of the Sarvastivadin
Bhikshu ordination and retained the smaller set of several dozen
Bdodhisattva precepts of the Brahmajala sutra. their monks (Bhikshus)
were recognized as such in Japan.

later Dogen was faced with a similar problem. the Tendai school in which he
had been ordained was granted a similar imperial monopoly on administering
the Brahmajala precepts. the Tendai school was hostile to Zen just as
Todaiji had been hostile to Tendai. Dogen was faced with the problem of 
either not propagating the Dharma or revising the ordination for monks. he
chose the latter. as a result the ordination for a novice priest/monk consists
of only the 16 Bodhisattva precepts.

as a result of external political pressure the number of precepts involved
in ordination as a monk or priest may vary from sect to sect in Japanese
lineages. 

jneatrou@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Neatrour)
--------------------------------------------

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nagasiva, tyagi
tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (I@AM)